The Outhouse : The Greatest Comic Book Forum

So we all know that in the recent issues of Peter David’s fantastically excellent X-Factor book, Rictor, our favorite suicidal ex-mutant, came out of the closet when he planted a highly long awaited kiss to guest star Shatterstar, who lip-locked with his eyes closed in return. The response has been a thing that has caused a huge stir within the community of comic readers in various forums. On one side we have the readers who are praising this decision and feel that it is a great progress for both of the characters after years of “Are they or are they not” debates and on the other side we have the folks who feel it’s highly contrived and I‘ve seen quite a good number of livid opinions bashing this plot point of the characters’ sexuality. Heck, even Shatterstar’s creator, Robert Leifeld, seems to be totally against it and cannot wait to change it if he ever worked on the character again.

    Now while I’m reading these on-going debates about whether David wrote that scene in simply as shock value to get people talking and not staying true to the character, I’m also reading some posts of Dwayne McDuffie’s work on a few of his books. Now if you’ve followed my writing for this comic column way back around the time I first started, you’d know I’ve written a piece a while back about my frustration with a lot of comic readers due to feeling that black characters were being created or added to books simply to serve an agenda, especially if it were more than one black character. In a newsarama preview for McDuffie’s last JLA book (JLA #34), we’re introduced to the team of heroes that battle the main villain, Starbreaker, the heroes being Green Lantern John Stewart, Vixen, Dr. Light, Icon, Hardware, Firestorm, and Paladin. Now if you’re use to surfing the internet and seeing idiotic thoughts in posts, you’ll know where I’m going at with this based on the characters alone. Lets look at some truly insightful posts…

"...how many blacks did McDuffie manage to sneak onto the team this time--five? (I bet DC editorial gave him the same order as Burger King in that lawsuit--to "lighten things up around here.")"

"Why don't they call this the "Minority League"? "

"I don't think anyone will support an original black "mainstream" character. I know I won't."

"Maybe they should establish a separate league for all the negro superheroes. I'm not saying kick them ALL off. One would be okay. (Doesn't Hollywood have some kind of law that says every movie has to have at least one black in it?) I just think they're going overboard with all this diversity stuff. I mean, how many comics do minorities read anyway?"

And my favorite…

"Couldn't they get Static, Black Lightning, or one of his daughters instead of Dr. Light on the cover of BET League of America? Ha!"

Oh, how far we’ve come along from prejudice.

Just recently it was also announced that McDuffie will be writing a new book for DC that concerns the black community of the DC-verse and their place in it. Of course we’re introduced to a nice lil’ post from another troll:

“…I can see the story now: Black evil scientist - who used to be Sivana's janitor - develops a plague that will kill off every non-Black on the face of the planet. It's even revealed that he tested it on Michael Jackson, who obviously was "no longer Black" and it still worked! So Obama rounds up all the DCU's Black heroes to band together and stop this mad scientist before he kills off all the Whiteys, Asians, Amerinds, Hispanics and anyone else who doesn't like Fried Chicken and Watermelon. Of course, there'll be a traitor who wants all the honkies wasted, but that's expected in a miniseries with this kind of social importance!

The title of the miniseries? Black Power, obviously”

Pretty much from all comments and various other comments I’ve seen all throughout the internet whenever a group of black characters get together, we’re introduced to it being “contrived.” Why? Because if any body of the same race besides whites get together, it’s entirely forced and would never happen without the creators forcing it to happen. Just like how any writer will come up with any type of team up and it’s all fine and dandy. But minorities? Oh no, please! Stay away! When one walks down the street or in the city and see a group of black people hanging out, do you think they’re contrived? To tell you the truth, I do in fact feel that in this day and age, people still get very suspicious and worried when they see a group of black folks together and want to walk the other way or cross the street. Hmm…

Anyway, while I’m shaking my head at the ignorance and stupidity of all this, I’m shaking my head feeling sorry for the gay readers and supporters as their sexuality are being argued as “contrived.” It’s no big deal to see a heterosexual relationship for the, oh… 991,008,921,239,054,906th time in a row, but once we get a gay kiss in a mainstream book which happens less than once every maybe… 5 years it feels (speaking of, how many gay kisses has there even been in a mainstream book besides maybe Midnighter/Apollo and some lesbian make-out sessions?), it’s the end of the world. A common argument that I see a lot when it comes to debates of this nature is something along the lines of, “As long as their sexuality serves a good plot point and feels natural and fit’s the story, go for it. Other than that, it shouldn’t be brought up” and I ask, “Why?” Why do I ask that? Well why should a person's sexuality be done for story purposes? People who are gay are gay, people who are bi are bi, people who are straight are straight. Do they fit the "story of our reality?" We should have characters of all races and orientations without having to think they should be that way for a story. That's what annoys me when people ask for black characters/villains and the response to that is, "The story doesn't call for a black so-so right now." What the fuck? Blacks, Asians, Arabs, and all types of other races and ethnicity, gays, bisexuals, lesbians, and all types of sexual orientations as long as they aren’t hurting anyone should have every right to be depicted in a book filled with the same old white characters who are saving the world and having their own personal issues. Just because a character comes out of the closet doesn’t make him/her any less of a character. If my best bud came out as gay, guess what? This is the same best bud I’ve shared laughs with and chilled with on a Saturday watching cartoons. So what if he prefers bananas over apple pie? I’m pretty sure if he was someone who could kick your ass before, taking a step out of his closet wouldn’t mean he couldn’t kick your ass again.

Which brings me to Rictor who’s been a huge favorite character of mine since the first issue of David’s X-Factor run. Since the beginning of the series, the character has been highly suicidal, all brooding and depressed, angry and easily prone to violence. Now, since before this series, Rictor always seemed like the type that alienated himself from others and always had a… weird look to him, differencing him from his peers. Also, he’s dated and had sex with a few female characters. Now, when it comes to the argument of his sexuality, a lot of readers like to point out that last bit about why the character couldn’t be bisexual. Because clearly he’s had relationships with women so therefore it cancels out all chances of being with a dude and enjoying a night of… okay, let me not get graphic for the easily disturbed and homophobic. But yes, onto what I was getting to… why not do some research on real life gay/bisexual people, or hell, if you have gay friends look at them? From what I understand, gays/bisexuals who spend years suppressing their sexuality are in fact prone of be depressed (I wonder why), afraid to come out, lash at the world, aggressive, snobby, and suicidal. Why you ask? Well for one, prejudice and denying them the right to be happy with the person they want to love! Heck, from what I understand, the statistics for teen suicides are ridiculously high due to teens dealing with their sexuality alone. Great job, folks. And now I get to this, how many men in their lives who are gay or bisexual actually have children and have been married to women for years before coming out of the closet? So does that make them contrived? A common thing I’ve noticed with some friends is that when some do in fact come out of the closet, one of the more common responses from my other friends and peers are, “Wait, what? That doesn’t make sense. Didn’t you used to go out with this girl? Didn’t you have sex with this girl? How can you be gay?” Heh, wow, it’s like real life decided to ret-con my fellow friends to be gay. Oh, life, how can you be so contrived? Don’t you know gay people don’t exist? Why must you spew your agenda on us, life? And why should I exist? Am I agenda too, life? I’m black! I must serve a purpose to your story or else why am I here? Why must you contrive me with black friends, life?!

Due to all this stupidness, I hope Marvel turns Wolverine gay.

View All Comments

Author: starlord User Title: Still more proof... Location: Michigan Posted Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:15 pm (GMT -5) I'd kill for a gay Wolverine, just to see all those macho geeks suddnenly have a spasm and fall over. LOL! Seriously though, excellent articile. Probably pone of the most enjoyable I've read in the years that I've been here. Really gave me pause. Thank you.

Author: Greg User Title: Token Black Guy in Sundown Town Location: Posted Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:16 pm (GMT -5) starlord wrote: I'd kill for a gay Wolverine, just to see all those macho geeks suddnenly have a spasm and fall over. LOL! Seriously though, excellent articile. Probably pone of the most enjoyable I've read in the years that I've been here. Really gave me pause. Thank you. Wow, that actually means a lot, Brian. And no, thank you.

Author: fieldy snuts User Title: Coca Cola Classic Location: The 3040 Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:47 am (GMT -5) MrBlack wrote: I hope Marvel does turn Wolverine gay. It would shake things up at least. daken is the closest we'll get to that. he's bi.

Author: vinnypic User Title: knows the score Location: Stark Industries Coney Island Facility Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:21 am (GMT -5) shit Greg, fantastic read!

Author: Greg User Title: Token Black Guy in Sundown Town Location: Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:50 am (GMT -5) I'm glad you enjoy it, Vinny!

Author: Punchy User Title: Pal Location: UK Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:52 am (GMT -5) I honestly don't think it matters, is Shatterstar now a better or worse character because he's gay? No, he's just as lame as always. Rictor is interesting, because he was previously shown to be involved with Wolfsbane. The best gay character in comics is Wallace Wells from Scott Pilgrim, because he's hilarious and interesting, regardless of what he does with his dick. Karolina from Runaways too, as well as Daken, who is bi-sexual. I also like Apollo and Midnighter. Renee Montoya was a great character, we got to know her regardless of sexuality first, and then learnt it, pity Rucka fucked it up by making her a superhero. I really don't like characters like Batwoman or Hulkling and Wiccan who seem to have no personality beyond their sexuality, they have the potential to be interesting, but they need more than sex. Northstar used to be the same, but Fraction seems to be developing him into something more than a token. I can't believe the use of Black characters is still controversial in this day and age, I mean, I made jokes about Dwayne's JLA being a response to Dark Avengers, but it was just jokes.

Author: MrBlack User Title: Mystery Mod Location: Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:30 am (GMT -5) Punchy wrote: I honestly don't think it matters, is Shatterstar now a better character because he's gay? No, he's just as lame as always. The best gay character in comics is Wallace Wells from Scott Pilgrim, because he's hilarious, regardless of what he does with his dick. I can't believe the use of Black characters is still controversial in this day and age, I mean, I made jokes about Dwayne's JLA being a response to Dark Avengers, but it was just jokes. It's really silly. It doesn't matter whether a character is gay, straight, black, white, or Dutch (well, maybe if they're Dutch). Three of my favorite "new" characters have been Jason Rusch (Firestorm), Jaime Reyes (Blue Beetle), and Ryan Choi (the Atom). Their ethnicities had nothing to do with me liking them because it was just a part of each character. What made me like them was the fact that all of their books were really well written and enjoyable. Likewise, I liked many of the characters in Manhunter just because Andreyko made them real, three dimensional people (although it did get a little over the top towards the end, when Kate was pretty much the only non-homosexual in the book). If the stories are good, who cares?

Author: John Q. User Title: Vaya con Dios, Amigos Location: Ireland Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:37 am (GMT -5) nice article man, you pointed out a lot of things that have annoyed me for quite a while.

Author: SaturnKnight User Title: Location: Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:42 pm (GMT -5) Best article I've read on The Outhouse yet. Will comment in greater detail tonight or tomorrow. I look forward to reading more of your work.

Author: Greg User Title: Token Black Guy in Sundown Town Location: Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:45 pm (GMT -5) Yeesh, guys, seriously, thanks, heh heh. Spread it around to anyone who's interests it'd peak or those pesky nay-sayers still.

Author: Old Man User Title: Let's get it on! Location: Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:29 pm (GMT -5) Quoting from the article: "Now if youÂ’ve followed my writing for this comic column way back around the time I first started, youÂ’d know IÂ’ve written a piece a while back about my frustration with a lot of comic readers due to feeling that black characters were being created or added to books simply to serve an agenda, especially if it were more than one black character." Bluntly, if I owned a site, and somebody posted crap about too many black characters being introduced, I'd ban them. Well, maybe after a few tries at reasonable discussion trying to show the idiot poster why he is wrong. And I said idiot in lieu of saying bigot, because I figure there must be a few people who are just thinking incorrectly or are dense. Comic book companies are stupit (intentional misspelling) if they don't try to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. We straight, white males are not the only audience with money. (Well, I'm old now, and it isn't as straight as it used to be. TMI?) I look at it mathematically. The last census numbers I saw stated that Hispanics are 14% of the population, Blacks are 13%. There must be another percentage of minorities. Half the population is Female. 100-14-13-1=72% Half of that is 36%. That's 36% of the population that is white male. If the percentage of GLBT people is 8%, that's nearly another 3% from 36%, leaving roughly 33%. (36% times 92%=33.12%) And I do realize the percentage of GLBT might be higher or lower because of incomplete canvassing methods. Work with me here. So the potential straight, white male audience for comic books (and most any product) is 33%. A company would be denying itself a huge amount of money by marketing a product to a limited sales base. As to my personal opinion about minority characters, I really don't give a s**t as long as the comic tells a good story. My list of favorite characters is long, but somewhere near the top is Midnighter.

Author: starlord User Title: Still more proof... Location: Michigan Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:58 pm (GMT -5) I am curious on why Midnighter gets more of the love than Apollo? I like them both, a lot, but Apollo always seems to get the shaft.

Author: Old Man User Title: Let's get it on! Location: Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:38 am (GMT -5) starlord wrote: I am curious on why Midnighter gets more of the love than Apollo? I like them both, a lot, but Apollo always seems to get the shaft. Midinighter has had his own series. therefore: Midnighter > Apollo. In general, I like Midnighter's bad-@$$ery. But they are a couple, and thus a team.

Author: starlord User Title: Still more proof... Location: Michigan Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:47 am (GMT -5) Old Man wrote: Midinighter has had his own series. therefore: Midnighter > Apollo. In general, I like Midnighter's bad-@$$ery. But they are a couple, and thus a team. You are right, they are a team. But still, poor Apollo. Not enough props for the wind beneath Midnighter's wings.

Author: Old Man User Title: Let's get it on! Location: Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:01 am (GMT -5) starlord wrote: You are right, they are a team. But still, poor Apollo. Not enough props for the wind beneath Midnighter's wings. 'Apollo always seems to get the shaft'. 'wind beneath his wings'...are you deliberately punning? Or is it just the late hour?

Author: mrorangesoda User Title: God is my co-pilot Location: Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:11 am (GMT -5) starlord wrote: Apollo always seems to get the shaft. There's a joke here. anyway, great piece greg.

Author: starlord User Title: Still more proof... Location: Michigan Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:53 am (GMT -5) Old Man wrote: 'Apollo always seems to get the shaft'. 'wind beneath his wings'...are you deliberately punning? Or is it just the late hour? Yes on both counts.

Author: vinnypic User Title: knows the score Location: Stark Industries Coney Island Facility Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:14 am (GMT -5) Apollo is more interesting to me than Midnighter. Midnighter is all brood brood brood, kill kill kill. While Apollo is a superman class hero who loves to garden, parenting, and TO BE A BOTTOM.

Author: Greg User Title: Token Black Guy in Sundown Town Location: Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:39 am (GMT -5) VinnyPic wrote: Apollo is more interesting to me than Midnighter. Midnighter is all brood brood brood, kill kill kill. While Apollo is a superman class hero who loves to garden, parenting, and TO BE A BOTTOM. I think that's why people prefer Midnighter. People see Midnighter as the more masculine and bad-ass of the two, so they'd prefer that as the more "feminem" of the two isn't as favorited by the majority of the readers. It's a common thing to see, especially hanging with a few friends of mine. They don't mind others being bi or gay, but if that bi or gay is flamboyant or fem then it's looked down upon.

Author: Old Man User Title: Let's get it on! Location: Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:36 am (GMT -5) VinnyPic wrote: Midnighter is all brood brood brood, kill kill kill. So am I.

Author: PDH User Title: Location: Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:52 am (GMT -5) Great article! I pretty much completely agree.

Author: starlord User Title: Still more proof... Location: Michigan Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:00 am (GMT -5) Old Man wrote: So am I. Listen to him. He tells the truth.

Author: MrBlack User Title: Mystery Mod Location: Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:28 pm (GMT -5) starlord wrote: I am curious on why Midnighter gets more of the love than Apollo? I like them both, a lot, but Apollo always seems to get the shaft. Because Batman is better than Superman.

Author: Arion User Title: Lord of Atlantis Location: Posted Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:59 pm (GMT -5) Vic Mackey wrote: daken is the closest we'll get to that. he's bi. And yet we only see him going at it with women...

View All Comments