The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Punchy** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:08 am

Shazam takes centre stage in this issue, as Johns and Frank finally get round to Billy saying the magic words and becoming the hero who’s name we cannot say for legal reasons. Is it OK for fans to still call him Captain Marvel or do we have to call him Shazam too? I’ll call him Captain Marvel because I’m old-school like that, and I don’t care what Carol Danvers has to say about it! I’ve actually really been enjoying these back-up stories, so it was great to have a longer instalment, and it’s a lot of fun to see how Johns is reinterpreting the classic Captain Marvel origin. I think the best scenes in this issue were the discussion about whether or not there is a ‘pure good person’. Back in 1939 when Cap deputed, it was a more innocent time I guess (apart from WW2 kicking off), so the idea of Billy Batson being pure good would not have been questioned, whereas now, in 2012, we’re all so cynical that we don’t believe anyone can be purely good. Johns has realised this and therefore given us a Captain Marvel for modern times, who isn’t pure good, but who has the potential, who tries his best. I guess you could argue that it’s the job of superheroes like Captain Marvel and Superman to fight for ‘pure good’, but it does get a little cheesy.

I also really liked how even though he’s now Captain Marvel, Billy still acted like a kid, running around getting into trouble. Those scenes with him and Freddy were like Big or something, and a lot of fun. I love the old-fashioned Big Red Cheese as much as anyone, but this new take has value too, plus, the artwork from Frank is amazing. The back-up was pretty bad though, I really don’t care about Pandora, and what the hell is (I assume) The Question doing getting involved in a story involving cosmic shit like this? Unless the ‘Man with the hat’ is referring to Phantom Stranger, but then, the story was in Hub City, traditionally The Question’s turf. Who knows? I just hope it’s Vic Sage and not Renee Montoya.

by **IvCNuB4** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:02 pm

Looks like someone didn't read Phantom Stranger #0

The Council of Wizards passed sentence on the Trinity of Sin (Pandora, the Phantom Stranger, and the Question (although he hadn't become the Question yet)).

by **Punchy** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:05 pm

So The Question is magic now?

WTF?

by **IvCNuB4** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:09 pm

They haven't said yet what his sin was. Phantom Stranger wasn't magic-based then so Vic may not have been either. Seems like part of their punishment involved magic/some mystic attribute that allows them a very long lifespan to contemplate what they did and make restitution for it.

by **The Beast** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:56 pm

Punchy wrote:Shazam takes centre stage in this issue, as Johns and Frank finally get round to Billy saying the magic words and becoming the hero who’s name we cannot say for legal reasons. Is it OK for fans to still call him Captain Marvel or do we have to call him Shazam too? I’ll call him Captain Marvel because I’m old-school like that, and I don’t care what Carol Danvers has to say about it! I’ve actually really been enjoying these back-up stories, so it was great to have a longer instalment, and it’s a lot of fun to see how Johns is reinterpreting the classic Captain Marvel origin. I think the best scenes in this issue were the discussion about whether or not there is a ‘pure good person’. Back in 1939 when Cap deputed, it was a more innocent time I guess (apart from WW2 kicking off), so the idea of Billy Batson being pure good would not have been questioned, whereas now, in 2012, we’re all so cynical that we don’t believe anyone can be purely good. Johns has realised this and therefore given us a Captain Marvel for modern times, who isn’t pure good, but who has the potential, who tries his best. I guess you could argue that it’s the job of superheroes like Captain Marvel and Superman to fight for ‘pure good’, but it does get a little cheesy.

I also really liked how even though he’s now Captain Marvel, Billy still acted like a kid, running around getting into trouble. Those scenes with him and Freddy were like Big or something, and a lot of fun. I love the old-fashioned Big Red Cheese as much as anyone, but this new take has value too, plus, the artwork from Frank is amazing. The back-up was pretty bad though, I really don’t care about Pandora, and what the hell is (I assume) The Question doing getting involved in a story involving cosmic shit like this? Unless the ‘Man with the hat’ is referring to Phantom Stranger, but then, the story was in Hub City, traditionally The Question’s turf. Who knows? I just hope it’s Vic Sage and not Renee Montoya.

I'm with you Punchy, he's still Captain Marvel to me but I'm really enjoying this take on the character. I don't think I could put up with yet another Pure good Billy/Power of Shazam 2.0.

Nice review, man.

by **The Beast** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:00 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:Looks like someone didn't read Phantom Stranger #0 The Council of Wizards passed sentence on the Trinity of Sin (Pandora, the Phantom Stranger, and the Question (although he hadn't become the Question yet)).

Would you say PS #0 is integral to the new Shazam mythos, and any idea when Billy is going to join the JL and/or get his own title? I'm pretty picky when it comes to monthlies, but I'm a sucker for all things Shazam!

by **IvCNuB4** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:14 pm

Although PS#0 showed the Council members you don't need to read it to understand Shazam as that issue really just focused on the back-story of the Trinity but mostly PS.

I believe the Captain joins the JL in 2013 just after the "Throne of Atlantis" arc.

by **Juan Cena** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:11 pm

Hmm...Since the Rock of Eternity is supposed to be at the nexus of time and space (or something like that), I wonder if it means Vic's "sin" is more recent, and not ancient.

by **Agent Panic** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:45 pm

I think the Shazam (Captain Marvel will always be Monica Rambeau, dammit) back story was the best part of the Justice League for months, so I really liked this issue. I loved how Billy and Freddy reacted to the 20 bucks. I prefer this interpretation of Shazam, a character that I never really gave a chance before because of his milquetoast and white bread personality.

by **holtom2000** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:07 pm

I'm thinking johns peaked a while ago

by **fieldy snuts** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:44 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:Looks like someone didn't read Phantom Stranger #0

Because everyone in their right mind would be all over a Dan Didio book :lol:

Despite being written horribly I agree the idea's of everything look great but the execution seems horrible. seems like DC's going for the Fear Itself style of writing.

by **Amoebas** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:56 am

IvCNuB4 wrote:Looks like someone didn't read Phantom Stranger #0 The Council of Wizards passed sentence on the Trinity of Sin (Pandora, the Phantom Stranger, and the Question (although he hadn't become the Question yet)).

It was also set up in DC's Free Comic Day giveaway from earlier this year.

Poverty
Wealth
Make-Up
Dirt
The Man with the Hat
The Girl with the Guns
And if he were to include himself - that's 7. Seven to counter the 7 Deadly Sins maybe?

Man with the Hat could be Phantom Stranger.
Pandora just showed us her guns
Make-Up could be Question
Not sure who the others might be.

As for Shazam, (I'm not going to be a stickler as it's a battle DC can't win anytime soon), I've liked the back-ups and loved this full issue.

Billy feels real for the first time ever. If I'm curious about anything from the old incarnation, it's where the Solomon, Hercules, Atlas, etc all went.

And echoing others, Frank is a joy to watch. Great art and story here. Looking forward to more.

by **habitual** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:11 pm

I just read this as I was browsing today and this is without a doubt the worst comic interpretation on this character, possibly maybe even the worst comic I've ever read.

I normally don't mind reinterpretation of character, in fact I usually enjoy them, but, this went to the degree that it was totally unrecognizable, to the point where it's not even really following the original paradigm for the character or the changes that were made to it in the last 20-25 years. We might as well call him Captain Goober.

I've wanted to see a more mature take on this character ever sense I read Miracleman way back when, but, this was totally the wrong direction to go. This version of Billy is pretty much an unlikable douche and the retake on Sivana is quite possibly even worse.

Then, there's the writing. Does this boy have the embers within him was were I honestly completely gave up on this comic, pretty much because it's one of the most ridiculous lines ever. I foresee this take on the character lasting even shorter than the ridiculous Freddy/Cap revamp we saw a few years ago

This is not only the worst comic Geoff Johns has ever written, it's quite possibly the worst comic ever, it sure is as far as I'm concerned. This book well best be served as a coaster for drinks.

Hab

by **IvCNuB4** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:29 pm

"The worst comic ever" ? ? ? ! :lol:

Have you read any of Liefeld's crap lately ? The JL is fucking Hamlet compared to "Grifter" or "Hawk and Dove" :lol:

by **habitual** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:19 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:"The worst comic ever" ? ? ? !
Have you read any of Liefeld's crap lately ? The JL is fucking Hamlet compared to "Grifter" or "Hawk and Dove"

I have, and this was far, far worse.

I think Hawk and Dove is one of the worst concepts ever introduced into comics, so the expectations shouldn't be that high to begin with. Captain Marvel and Billy Batson are one of the best concepts ever introduced into comics, one which you'd really have to go out of your way to screw up, and that's exactly what we have here.

After reading the preview last week I compared it to watching a snuff film in comic form, and after reading the entire issue I think it's definitely true.

Hab