The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **TimDrake'sDumbWings** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:28 am

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand

So Joker made it look like he had removed the face of every member of The Family... but he didn't.

And we were led to believe that Alfred was blinded earlier in the arc... but he's gotten better.

And Joker implied that he knew that Bruce Wayne is Batman... but he probably doesn't.

And Bruce implied that he knows who Joker really is... but we never find out who he is.

And Bruce came right to edge of killing Joker... but--like always--decided not to do it.

Seriously, what the fuck happened for the past 5 issues besides a really awesome-and-creepy issue 16?

And with that, the only DC book on my pull list gets dropped. Scott Snyder sets a great atmosphere with his writing, and I love Capullo's pencils. However, this is way too much same-old/same-old being peddled as new and revolutionary. I'm still interested in reading this, just not for more than $1.99/issue.

Am I in the minority here? Did other people enjoy it?

by **BlueStreak** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:58 am

I was unimpressed by this arc, to be honest. There was too much suspension of disbelief, and the payoff was pretty weak.

by **Thor-El** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Sounds like there was no pay off at all.

by **Punchy** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:20 pm

The illusion of change.

by **Zechs** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:34 pm

It was a bad issue and now I'm glad certain characters aren't in the new 52. Because this stuff is ghastly. This whole crossover felt pointless.

by **TimDrake'sDumbWings** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:23 pm

Does anybody think it's worth it for me to just replace Batman with Flash or Wonder Woman in my pull list? I read and liked the first issues of each, but don't want to commit if 1) The creative teams will experience tampering like most other New 52 comics, 2) They're tied into some retarded crossover like Trinity War, or 3) They experience as much quality drop-off as Batman did. I was excited to get caught up on Wonder Woman when I saw that Orion was present, but seeing that he'll be appearing in Superman in May makes me leery that I'll have to read both titles to get the whole story.

by **TimDrake'sDumbWings** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:25 pm

Or Detective Comics? I love Chew and thought Layman's first issue was pretty good.

by **nietoperz** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:27 pm

Detective Comics is very good, but then I'd persevere with Batman if I were you...

by **TimDrake'sDumbWings** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:28 pm

nietoperz wrote:Detective Comics is very good, but then I'd persevere with Batman if I were you...

Did you like this issue?

by **nietoperz** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:29 pm

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:
Did you like this issue?

I haven't read it yet - but even if I don't, the book has been consistently great since Snyder took over, so I'd say he's earned some leeway.

by **HNutz** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:09 pm

I wasn't a fan.

What happens to the Joker? He fell off a cliff into an underground river Is that supposed to be a nod to something? Because it's happened a LOT.

What does the Joker say to Nightwing and the rest while Bats is out? We don't know. He didn't have any notes or anything. But they're all giving him the cold shoulder for some reason, right? Right?

Also... apparently a few years back, Bruce Wayne (NOT Batman) confronted Joker at Arkham. That felt... off to me.

And, if you were hoping this week's Batgirl would mention last issue's cliffhanger... yeah, not so much. They do James and Detective Bullock's back BOOSH!!(somehow). And the bad guy is Firefly. No mention of Joker. Or Gail Simone, for that matter.

by **alaska1125** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:16 pm

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:Does anybody think it's worth it for me to just replace Batman with Flash or Wonder Woman in my pull list? I read and liked the first issues of each, but don't want to commit if 1) The creative teams will experience tampering like most other New 52 comics, 2) They're tied into some retarded crossover like Trinity War, or 3) They experience as much quality drop-off as Batman did. I was excited to get caught up on Wonder Woman when I saw that Orion was present, but seeing that he'll be appearing in Superman in May makes me leery that I'll have to read both titles to get the whole story.

I'm going to give this storyline a pass and keep on with Batman in the immediate future, but if you are really going to drop it and pick up another title, I'd go with WW. I get the feeling that DC is wary of tampering with Azzarello's mojo. The book is rock solid so far.

by **TimDrake'sDumbWings** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:52 pm

nietoperz wrote:
I haven't read it yet - but even if I don't, the book has been consistently great since Snyder took over, so I'd say he's earned some leeway.

Don't get me wrong: I'll still try anything Snyder touches, as The Black Mirror was excellent. I just feel like his run has been well-told, well-drawn accounts of basically nothing for the past 18 issues. Did The Court of Owls REALLY need to be longer than 8 issues tops? Black Mirror was so great because it told a long-running, far-reaching story while other, smaller plots were addressed and resolved throughout. Snyder's New 52 Batman run is just... meandering.

Still. I'll read this if it's ever on sale on Comixology.

by **Victorian Squid** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:01 pm

Since I made so much easy money off of the early mask-face issues, I flipped through this at the shop to see where it all was going, and...I can't believe how bad this was.

Wow, they had all that momentum going at the beginning they wasted and then Snyder turned in an underwhelming and even amateurish denouement like that. :smt011

He's getting pretty close to going on the short list of Absurdly Overrated Writers along with Johns and Fraction, and I'm beginning to think he doesn't understand how to pace long story arcs without half his readers losing interest along the way.

by **chap22** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:08 pm

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:Does anybody think it's worth it for me to just replace Batman with Flash or Wonder Woman in my pull list? I read and liked the first issues of each, but don't want to commit if 1) The creative teams will experience tampering like most other New 52 comics, 2) They're tied into some retarded crossover like Trinity War, or 3) They experience as much quality drop-off as Batman did. I was excited to get caught up on Wonder Woman when I saw that Orion was present, but seeing that he'll be appearing in Superman in May makes me leery that I'll have to read both titles to get the whole story.

it would indeed be worth it to replace Batman with Wonder Woman.

i like Flash a lot, but it feels pretty unimportant if that makes any difference to you. fun stories and great art though.

OTOH, if you feel like you need a Batman book, try Batman & Robin. it's the "characterization" book of the Bat-titles, and other than about 3 issues in the middle, has been as good as (and IMMO, often better than) Snyder's Batman. and the Annual from last week...one of the best single-issue Bat-stories in my recent memory. you really should pick that one up on its own regardless of whether you get the rest of the series or not. it's that good.