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Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby Zechs » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:38 pm

chap22 wrote:lolwut?

WTF are you on about now?



Look he's a great GL writer and I like him for that. But his Batman? He gets Tim, Dick, and Damian. I appreciate that. Though the excessive hate on he has for Cassandra Cain is why I won't read a Bat book of his. He goes out of his way to ignore or ruin the character for whatever godly reason.
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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby Victorian Squid » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:39 pm

There's the crazy seeping back in again, whew.

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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby fieldy snuts » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:02 pm

Zechs wrote:

Look he's a great GL writer and I like him for that. But his Batman? He gets Tim, Dick, and Damian. I appreciate that. Though the excessive hate on he has for Cassandra Cain is why I won't read a Bat book of his. He goes out of his way to ignore or ruin the character for whatever godly reason.



the reason is pretty simple, he used to be a batbooks editor while they were prominent didn't he?

guess he never liked them since back then.

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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby chap22 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:24 pm

Victorian Squid wrote:There's the crazy seeping back in again, whew.

Yep. Tomasi's B & R is awesome.

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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby guitarsmashley » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:40 pm

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
So Joker made it look like he had removed the face of every member of The Family... but he didn't.

And we were led to believe that Alfred was blinded earlier in the arc... but he's gotten better.

And Joker implied that he knew that Bruce Wayne is Batman... but he probably doesn't.

And Bruce implied that he knows who Joker really is... but we never find out who he is.

And Bruce came right to edge of killing Joker... but--like always--decided not to do it.



See I read a lot of these situations completely differently. Yes the fake out of the faces was a fake out but it was a pretty damn good one that sent chills down my spine, Alfred might not have gotten better, The joker could've simply lied about the torture and instead just filled him full of joker gas. Joker definitely knows that Bruce is Batman, he just doesn't care. He doesn't want to mess with Bruce, he wants to mess with Batman. Batman gambled with Joker and Joker couldn't handle it. And rather than Batman coming close to killing him and not I see it as Batman driving the Joker crazy and Joker pulling away and falling(yes this is how all Joker storylines will end) rather than call Batmans bluff.

I really liked this issue and the story, and am really not looking forward to the next issue.
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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby TimDrake'sDumbWings » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:02 pm

guitarsmashley wrote:
See I read a lot of these situations completely differently. Yes the fake out of the faces was a fake out but it was a pretty damn good one that sent chills down my spine, Alfred might not have gotten better, The joker could've simply lied about the torture and instead just filled him full of joker gas. Joker definitely knows that Bruce is Batman, he just doesn't care. He doesn't want to mess with Bruce, he wants to mess with Batman. Batman gambled with Joker and Joker couldn't handle it. And rather than Batman coming close to killing him and not I see it as Batman driving the Joker crazy and Joker pulling away and falling(yes this is how all Joker storylines will end) rather than call Batmans bluff.

I really liked this issue and the story, and am really not looking forward to the next issue.


Well, its good to see someone enjoyed this. Like I said, I respect Snyder and Cappulo's work on this... there's just other stuff I'd rather give my money to.

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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:38 pm

chap22 wrote:Yep. Tomasi's B & R is awesome.


I wonder how he'll handle it if Morrison either kills Damian off or makes him an ex-Robin in Batman Inc.
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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby Zechs » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:52 am

fieldy snuts wrote:

the reason is pretty simple, he used to be a batbooks editor while they were prominent didn't he?

guess he never liked them since back then.



Considering he was the editor behind Robin OYL. No he never has.
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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby Zechs » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:00 am

chap22 wrote:Yep. Tomasi's B & R is awesome.


I'll agree with you with the quieter moments. But seriously will anyone remember his villains or the stories? They'll be as forgettable as this story was. If they'll remember anything of his run will be the character moments between Damian and Bruce. They'll remember "the whole family".

That what gets me irks me. The "whole" family angle that's cemented in his run from Nightwing to now. He understood what he was doing when he did that. You don't forget everyone even if you hate them. You just write them horribly. Be a David Finch, that Gotham Knights writer who killed that book with Hush Knights, or Tony Daniels so to speak. Then you move on and you forget it. But not Tomasi.

Tomasi has a serious problem one worse than dare I say any fanboy on this board harbors. He flat out pretends said character doesn't exist in his pretty "little" world (even when the writer originally under him makes fun of this fact) or ruins said character by allowing said writer to do whatever the heck he wishes. To that end, he'll never get a cent from me when he's on a Bat book.

To put it bluntly chappy, he's my Devin Grayson. I see Pete Tomasi I think fantastic GLC writer, but horrible Bat-Family editor and one of the head enablers to the problem we have now with the female side of the Bat.
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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby chap22 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:27 am

Zechs wrote:
I'll agree with you with the quieter moments. But seriously will anyone remember his villains or the stories? They'll be as forgettable as this story was. If they'll remember anything of his run will be the character moments between Damian and Bruce. They'll remember "the whole family".

That what gets me irks me. The "whole" family angle that's cemented in his run from Nightwing to now. He understood what he was doing when he did that. You don't forget everyone even if you hate them. You just write them horribly. Be a David Finch, that Gotham Knights writer who killed that book with Hush Knights, or Tony Daniels so to speak. Then you move on and you forget it. But not Tomasi.

Tomasi has a serious problem one worse than dare I say any fanboy on this board harbors. He flat out pretends said character doesn't exist in his pretty "little" world (even when the writer originally under him makes fun of this fact) or ruins said character by allowing said writer to do whatever the heck he wishes. To that end, he'll never get a cent from me when he's on a Bat book.

To put it bluntly chappy, he's my Devin Grayson. I see Pete Tomasi I think fantastic GLC writer, but horrible Bat-Family editor and one of the head enablers to the problem we have now with the female side of the Bat.

I'll be honest, hell YES I'll remember his first story arc/villain. Ducard's kid was awesome, and the ending of that arc was brutal and awesome. And like I said earlier, the Annual was hands down one of the best single Bat-issues in my recent memory. At least since Dini's sleigh ride.

And regardless, even if you were right, which you're not, I wouldn't care b/c like I said, and you mention above, this is the "character" book of the Bat-titles, and Tomasi nails it for all three characters (it really should be called Batman & Robin & Alfred). I don't care what his feelings on Cass are because this ain't her book. And it ain't like he's the only one not writing her...nobody else is either. It's clearly an editorial mandate across the board. I read this book for Bruce and Damian and Alfred, and he flat out writes their relationships better than ANYBODY. He's making Damian a better character with every issue, and reminding readers that Bruce Wayne actually is human, not just an asshole robot crime fighter. If you're boycotting this book because of Cass, well, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong-headedly missing a great book.

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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby chap22 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:28 am

Juan Cena wrote:
I wonder how he'll handle it if Morrison either kills Damian off or makes him an ex-Robin in Batman Inc.

Wonder no more, b/c neither of those is happening.

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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby Zechs » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:08 am

chap22 wrote:I'll be honest, hell YES I'll remember his first story arc/villain. Ducard's kid was awesome, and the ending of that arc was brutal and awesome. And like I said earlier, the Annual was hands down one of the best single Bat-issues in my recent memory. At least since Dini's sleigh ride.

And regardless, even if you were right, which you're not, I wouldn't care b/c like I said, and you mention above, this is the "character" book of the Bat-titles, and Tomasi nails it for all three characters (it really should be called Batman & Robin & Alfred). I don't care what his feelings on Cass are because this ain't her book. And it ain't like he's the only one not writing her...nobody else is either. It's clearly an editorial mandate across the board. I read this book for Bruce and Damian and Alfred, and he flat out writes their relationships better than ANYBODY. He's making Damian a better character with every issue, and reminding readers that Bruce Wayne actually is human, not just an asshole robot crime fighter. If you're boycotting this book because of Cass, well, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong-headedly missing a great book.


The evidence shows otherwise chappy. The evidence shows otherwise. I see the same facts and view point of Tomasi you have for Grayson. The only difference is Tomasi hid it better.
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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby holtom2000 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:54 am

for DC, the best part of this arc was when they took your money....
so glad I'm a trade guy. thanks for saving me a lot of money

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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby Juan Cena » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:04 am

chap22 wrote:Wonder no more, b/c neither of those is happening.


Not so fast, my friend.
Note, we don’t seen Damian on any of the subsequent covers, though he was on five of the previous covers in this run. Batman condemned as a murderer. There is already speculation that issue 8 will see the death of Damian, Batman’s son and current Robin, who Morrison introduced to the comics. We have seen a future that Batman is trying to prevent that is blamed on Damien – though is blaming another individual, his genetic successor created by his mother, Talia. But couldwe see Damian’s death at the hands of Batman himself?


http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/02/10/so-whats-happening-in-batman-inc-8-anyway-dot-joining/
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Re: Batman 17 (SPOILERS)

Postby nietoperz » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:53 am

Wingman (Wally West) is the new Robin.
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