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[mrorangesoda]

you're assuming that the Legion ever "worked"

I thought the cartoon was pretty fun. I then made the mistake of trying to read some of the comics.

[Juan Cena]

No. What you're missing is, nobody has cared about the Legion, ever. Maybe for s VERY short period in the 70's or early 80's, but consistent enough to use the phrase "what made them work in the first place"?

First off if that were true the Legion would have gone 30 or 40 fracking years ago. Instead, it's managed almost to be a monthly comic in some form or another for pretty much 40 years (not counting it's Adventure and Action runs). It was popular enough that it ran Superboy out of his own book.

Second, it was popular enough that it was one of the books picked (along with New Teen Titans) to go to the Baxter format experiment (which ultimately screwed up sales on both books).

What you're deliberately ignoring in your zeal to rant about how the Legion is fucked by DC, is that ALL of those reworkings you claim broke the franchise? They wouldn't have HAPPENED if anyone gave a shit about the legion. If people had been buying the book, it wouldn't have needed fixing. It sucked then. The fact that it sucked AFTER the reboot doesn't change that. Polish a turd all you like, it's still shit.

No, what happened was that DC's constant rebooting and f**king around with the book eventually caused readers to drop it.

As for it sucking, go try to find a copy of The Great Darkness Saga (preferably the newer HC version with the bonus material). Or go looks for some of the books from the 70's when Bates and Shooter were writing, and Grell was artist, and then tell me it sucked.

They're going to keep trying to find a formula that makes money. Nothing's going to change that. And nothing they do with the legion is ever going to make you happy, cause they will not publish your fanfiction legion, where the team is made up of young guys and girls all named Ryan, from the planet Magary, fighting against the Frightful Pu$$ies.

This is obviously wrong. I liked Waid's stuff with the Threeboot. I saw a few signs of life with Levitz before Flashpoint, which sadly didn't continue with Nu-52.

[BubbaKanoosh]

How about the fact that DC is trying to turn it into more of a generic super-hero book, as opposed to exploiting the things that made Legion work in the first place?

The Legion started to go downhill when they tried to move away from the core concepts that made Legion work - A group of young adult super-heroes protecting the universe in an more positive future. When DC got away with that with an older team or with FYG, it didn't work out as well sales-wise.

What idea, in sure its an extremely outdated one at that, did they exploit in the first place?

[dairydead]

No, what happened was that DC's constant rebooting and f**king around with the book eventually caused readers to drop it.

This is a HUGE assumption, especially when you are basing your entire argument on it. There's no way to reinforce your assumption either. So here we are, talking about something no one has any way of knowing is even close to being true. Here we are reading paragraphs upon paragraphs of you defending your giant assumption as facts, despite the fact that even the anecdotal evidence around here (many posters here don't even like the conceptof the Legion) flies against it. Do you not understand how silly you come across when you do this?

[Juan Cena]

What idea, in sure its an extremely outdated one at that, did they exploit in the first place?

Come again? I think there's a typo or two in that sentence.

[guitargod694]

No, what happened was that DC's constant rebooting and f**king around with the book eventually caused readers to drop it.

I'm being serious... I've only read a handful of legion comics and didn't like any of them, so I genuinely don't know... was this book genuinely 'fucked with' more than most DC properties over the past 40 years? Comics get rebooted. Comics get 'fucked with'. Batman, Superman, Justice League... these books don't have a following because they've remained the same for 40+ years and DC has never 'fucked with' them.

[Juan Cena]

This is a HUGE assumption, especially when you are basing your entire argument on it. There's no way to reinforce your assumption either. So here we are, talking about something no one has any way of knowing is even close to being true. Here we are reading paragraphs upon paragraphs of you defending your giant assumption as facts, despite the fact that even the anecdotal evidence around here (many posters here don't even like the conceptof the Legion) flies against it. Do you not understand how silly you come across when you do this?

Here's where sales were six years ago, threeboot

56 Supergirl & Losh 26 $2.99 DC 32,340


Here's where they are now
122 Legion of Super Heroes 16 $2.99 DC 16,496

Big difference, eh?

[Juan Cena]

I'm being serious... I've only read a handful of legion comics and didn't like any of them, so I genuinely don't know... was this book genuinely 'fucked with' more than most DC properties over the past 40 years? Comics get rebooted. Comics get 'fucked with'. Batman, Superman, Justice League... these books don't have a following because they've remained the same for 40+ years and DC has never 'fucked with' them.

DC hasn't treated Superman or Justice League with as many radical rebooting or retoolings as have happened with Legion. (NU-52 notwithstanding)

Plus, when the retoolings worked with Man of Steel and JLA, for example, they worked because they got the books closer to their roots and not further away.

[dairydead]

Here's where sales were six years ago, threeboot

56 Supergirl & Losh 26 $2.99 DC 32,340


Here's where they are now
122 Legion of Super Heroes 16 $2.99 DC 16,496

Big difference, eh?

Ok. That has absolutely nothing to do with what i said.

[Victorian Squid]

I don't think the LOSH has moved away from its "core concepts" so much as the rest of the entire world has, and in the larger world of science fiction as well. People no longer extrapolate the same naive visions of the distant future as they did in the LOSH's pulp prime. It's an anachronism, losing relevancy more and more each day outside of a nostalgic few.

[guitargod694]

DC hasn't treated Superman or Justice League with as many radical rebooting or retoolings as have happened with Legion. (NU-52 notwithstanding)

Plus, when the retoolings worked with Man of Steel and JLA, for example, they worked because they got the books closer to their roots and not further away.

Electric blue Superman disagrees.
And while it ended up working out fine, JLI was a pretty big deal, too. Since it took away almost all of the usual suspects for a Justice League roster.

Perhaps not reboots... but 'fuck with's to be sure.

Also, like you said, Legion has been published almost continuously for 40 years.
Other than you not liking what they do with it... what's your effing point?
If DC was trying to kill it off by ruining it... they could just do it.

"Comic book steadily loses readership over last 20 years despite efforts to re-invigorate the franchise" is hardly a headline unique to Legion....

[dairydead]

I don't think the LOSH has moved away from its "core concepts" so much as the rest of the entire world has, and in the larger world of science fiction as well. People no longer extrapolate the same naive visions of the distant future as they did in the LOSH's pulp prime. It's an anachronism, losing relevancy more and more each day.

Right. Are we to assume that tastes within society just don't evolve? Is there an argument here that, for example, Howdy Doody would still be popular if it just stuck with the same formula throughout these years?

[mrorangesoda]

Here's where sales were six years ago, threeboot

56 Supergirl & Losh 26 $2.99 DC 32,340


Here's where they are now
122 Legion of Super Heroes 16 $2.99 DC 16,496

Big difference, eh?

So it went from sub-par sales to cancel level sales?

[S.F. Jude Terror]

I keep reading this thread title as saying Rich has a lesion and a tumor, and I become momentarily concerned for him.

[IvCNuB4]

I keep reading this thread title as saying Rich has a lesion and a tumor, and I become momentarily concerned for him.

I kept reading "tumor" also