The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Juan Cena]

Electric blue Superman disagrees.
And while it ended up working out fine, JLI was a pretty big deal, too. Since it took away almost all of the usual suspects for a Justice League roster.

Perhaps not reboots... but 'fuck with's to be sure.

Also, like you said, Legion has been published almost continuously for 40 years.
Other than you not liking what they do with it... what's your effing point?
If DC was trying to kill it off by ruining it... they could just do it.

"Comic book steadily loses readership over last 20 years despite efforts to re-invigorate the franchise" is hardly a headline unique to Legion....

Superman Blue was a storyline. A storyline that lasted a little too long, but a storyline no less.

If this was just me complaining about a book selling 50K-70K a month, that would be one thing. I might disagree with the direction, but it obviously was popular. But Legion is sold 16,460 or so copies for the latest figures. So something's obviously going wrong. Otherwise, they wouldn't be screwing with it the way it is.

[Juan Cena]

I don't think the LOSH has moved away from its "core concepts" so much as the rest of the entire world has, and in the larger world of science fiction as well. People no longer extrapolate the same naive visions of the distant future as they did in the LOSH's pulp prime. It's an anachronism, losing relevancy more and more each day outside of a nostalgic few.

If there's problem with the Legion's future, it's that Levitz dosen't seem to have any grasp how to tell a modern SF story. The book still feels like an 80's vision of the future instead of a 21st century vision of the future.

I don't think Legion has an irrelevant vision of the future. I felt that last Star Trek film was able to present a modern SF story, yet stayed true to it's optimistic roots.

[Juan Cena]

I keep reading this thread title as saying Rich has a lesion and a tumor, and I become momentarily concerned for him.

Appropriate, since a lot of people think of Uncle Rich as a cancer on the industry.

[BlueStreak]

The problem with the Legion of Superheroes is the same problem that most of DC's other failing properties have. There's no draw to the book.

In order for a comic book to succeed in today's market, it either needs A-list talent (or B-list talent on the rise) or A-list characters. The Legion is neither of those.

Under Mark Waid, a prolific writer writing what's arguably the best book on the stands, the Legion was a 30-40k title. Once Waid left, sales quickly tanked.

Until Levitz is gone from Legion and replaced by talent that today's market cares about, it will never exceed the 20k mark. It doesn't matter what the premise of the story is, it doesn't matter what iteration of characters the book is using, it doesn't matter how bright or dark the setting is. The Legion of Superheroes no longer has the draw to support a series without the help of topnotch talent.

[Juan Cena]

Ok. That has absolutely nothing to do with what i said.

So if a book's sales start tumbling following a major reboot then that doesn't mean the readers rejected the changes made?

[S.F. Jude Terror]

The problem with the Legion of Superheroes is the same problem that most of DC's other failing properties have. There's no draw to the book.

In order for a comic book to succeed in today's market, it either needs A-list talent (or B-list talent on the rise) or A-list characters. The Legion is neither of those.

Under Mark Waid, a prolific writer writing what's arguably the best book on the stands, the Legion was a 30-40k title. Once Waid left, sales quickly tanked.

Until Levitz is gone from Legion and replaced by talent that today's market cares about, it will never exceed the 20k mark. It doesn't matter what the premise of the story is, it doesn't matter what iteration of characters the book is using, it doesn't matter how bright or dark the setting is. The Legion of Superheroes no longer has the draw to support a series without the help of topnotch talent.

I think we need to wait for Jeph Loeb and Greg Land to leave Marvel. Only they can save the Legion.

[Juan Cena]

The problem with the Legion of Superheroes is the same problem that most of DC's other failing properties have. There's no draw to the book.

In order for a comic book to succeed in today's market, it either needs A-list talent (or B-list talent on the rise) or A-list characters. The Legion is neither of those.

Under Mark Waid, a prolific writer writing what's arguably the best book on the stands, the Legion was a 30-40k title. Once Waid left, sales quickly tanked.

Until Levitz is gone from Legion and replaced by talent that today's market cares about, it will never exceed the 20k mark. It doesn't matter what the premise of the story is, it doesn't matter what iteration of characters the book is using, it doesn't matter how bright or dark the setting is. The Legion of Superheroes no longer has the draw to support a series without the help of topnotch talent.

Bingo. The Legion's concept isn't wrong. Levitz just isn't the right creator for the job anymore.

The same thing happened when Waid left. DC gave the book over to Shooter, which failed because his writing skills aren't what they were. Readers started going elsewhere, or turned to the abortion Johns was cooking up with his "classic Legion" knockoff.

[Juan Cena]

I think we need to wait for Jeph Loeb and Greg Land to leave Marvel. Only they can save the Legion.

Hey, Loeb > Levitz right now.
Besides, despite all the crap at Marvel, Loeb still did a pretty good Superman.

[dairydead]

So if a book's sales start tumbling following a major reboot then that doesn't mean the readers rejected the changes made?

not categorically, no . not even close. That's still a huge assumption on your part.

[Juan Cena]

not categorically, no . not even close. That's still a huge assumption on your part.

It holds more water than your "you're assuming that the Legion ever "worked" comment."

Why don't you go do some actual research on Legion history, then come back.

[IvCNuB4]

Jude should run a report and see how much server space we could reclaim if we shut down all these boooorriinnng endlessly repetitive go-nowhere Legion bitch-fest threads

[Arion]

If there's problem with the Legion's future, it's that Levitz dosen't seem to have any grasp how to tell a modern SF story. The book still feels like an 80's vision of the future instead of a 21st century vision of the future.

I don't think Legion has an irrelevant vision of the future. I felt that last Star Trek film was able to present a modern SF story, yet stayed true to it's optimistic roots.

Or even before the 80s...

[Juan Cena]

Or even before the 80s...

Perhaps. But either way, Levitz's 30th century seems barren of any of the kinds of SF concepts that have developed since the mid-80's. And he doesn't have a grasp of what's going on in the world of modern science and tech. And while he might be able to exploit the Legion's continuity, he's average at world building at best.

[Zero]

Jude should run a report and see how much server space we could reclaim if we shut down all these boooorriinnng endlessly repetitive go-nowhere Legion bitch-fest threads

The mods should just merge them all on sight. Then threadkick Nac.

[bkthomson]

The mods should just merge them all on sight. Then threadkick Nac.

Nah, easer to tell people just do not go in the thread to bitch about a person thread.