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In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore?

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In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore?

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:26 am

So, like any true ambulance-chaser, I bought a copy of Batman, Inc. # 8. I didn't really understand too much of the story, but from what I could piece together, it certainly seemed well-executed -- as just a reader who isn't up on all of the things that have happened with Damian Wayne but certainly knows his origin and the first few years of his existence, it certainly read well.

But wow. That fight and death sequence...wow. That...wow. That was some brutal action, there.

Which is the point of this thread. Times have changed, and will always continue to do so. Comics have evolved with them.

Dick Grayson, on any given day, is my favorite character in comic books. And for the era in which I first became of this industry, the concept of a Robin was awesome -- this little kid (who grew up over the course of decades) in this red and green costume who jumps around and punches adults and fights crime with his bad-ass mentor...man. That was awesome. It was amazing. When I was a kid, and for the era those stories were told, that stuff was thrilling stuff for a kid.

But that era is gone. It just is. Because times change.

Now, having a Robin...at the end of the day, Damian Wayne was just an 11-year-old kid. And that death was...not the kind of death an 11-year-old kid should meet. It just isn't. Because the suspension of belief that it requires -- that adults around Bruce Wayne, or even Bruce Wayne himself, would allow it -- is simply too big of a leap to make.

That is, in my opinion.

I think comics have evolved to the degree where maybe there doesn't need to be a Robin anymore, because the types of stories have changed. Kids aren't reading comics anymore, for the reasons we all know, including price/distribution. This is a medium for adults, and while we're all capable of delusion and diversion and crazy arguments about the most bizarre things concerning this medium, at some point, I think that all of us still default to the position that you have to be able to suspend your belief to read comics...my contention is the day people stop reading a series, or quit reading comics entirely, is when they stop believing a man can fly.

So, a simple question then: With how brutal Damian Wayne's death was, would you ever suspend your belief again to the point that anyone, especially Bruce Wayne, would allow the creation of another Robin?

Has the time passed for this concept, especially for Robin to be a kid?

As always, I look forward to hearing you guys' thoughts on this matter!
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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby Punchy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:35 am

I felt that Damian was a Robin for the 21st Century, he was violent, angry, disdainful of adults, and wore a hoodie.

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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby oogy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:55 am

Punchy wrote:I felt that Damian was a Robin for the 21st Century, he was violent, angry, disdainful of adults, and wore a hoodie.

:lol:


I've always liked the idea of a Robin being in the picture.
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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby superfictious » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:07 am

I don't think Batman needs a Robin anymore, but I like the idea of young men and women being inspired by Bats to take a mantle. A Robin Inc actually makes more sense than a Batman Inc, and I'd make it Dick's responsibility to train and guide them.

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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby Amoebas » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:26 am

First - Bruce didn't allow Damain into that battle. It's pretty clear that Damian broke every rule Bruce had. The blame is on Alfred who let Damain go into that last fight.

As for Bruce letting an 11 year old kid be a Robin in the first place - this ain't no typical 11 year old kid. I know that's a cop-out answer but in a four color world it works just fine.

Bruce doesn't need a Robin - but Batman does. As Tim Drake proved, a solo Batman over time gets reckless; a Robin counters that.

Now could any other 'happier' hero partner with Bats and have the same affect - probably. And with the comic "Batman and Robin: changing into "Batman and..." we should see it.

As for any future Robins, Bruce has habitually 'adopted' enough boys to move into his home with him. If there's anything my suspension of belief wouldn't be able to handle, it's him doing this again.

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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby BlueStreak » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:00 am

If anything, the concept of a Robin's never been more relevant to modern day society. We've had several nationally publicized incidents in the last year in which children have been gunned down by criminals and lunatics. Those weren't the deaths that those kids deserved, but they happened anyways. Considering Superman was created by a high schooler grieving over the shooting death of his father, I think children superheroes can be looked to as a source of hope and inspiration for those kids.

As for whether Batman would ever allow another Robin, it doesn't really matter. Because in a world where vigilante superheroism is condoned and encouraged, there will always be youngsters aspring to be like them. There's going to be Robins, whether Batman wants them or not.
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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby Keb » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:12 am

Yeah there needs to be a Robin.

I think the greatest thing about Robin is that over time the characters in the costume have been allowed to "grow up" and move on to other roles (like Nightwing and in some ways, Red Robin, though I don't know where he's at in Nu52).

The thing about Robins of the past is that they've always had a connection to Bruce Wayne as well as Batman. At least the boys (Dick, Tim, Jason and even Damian) had that connection. Robin had originally showed that Batman had a human connection to the world (via the aspect of parenting and teaching) despite being nearly disconnected to it in his mission to fight crime. It highlighted the compassionate nature of his mother within him more than anything.

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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:43 am

You are momentarily forgetting that the "Robin" brand, no matter who it is in the underwear, is an IP that DC isn't exactly going to sit on. There's always going to be a Robin around somewhere.

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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby Punchy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:49 am

Keb wrote:Yeah there needs to be a Robin.

I think the greatest thing about Robin is that over time the characters in the costume have been allowed to "grow up" and move on to other roles (like Nightwing and in some ways, Red Robin, though I don't know where he's at in Nu52).

The thing about Robins of the past is that they've always had a connection to Bruce Wayne as well as Batman. At least the boys (Dick, Tim, Jason and even Damian) had that connection. Robin had originally showed that Batman had a human connection to the world (via the aspect of parenting and teaching) despite being nearly disconnected to it in his mission to fight crime. It highlighted the compassionate nature of his mother within him more than anything.


'Even' Damian? He's the only one who's actually related to Bruce Wayne!

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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby bkthomson » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:51 am

Damian was just a more extreme Jason, who looked how that ended. To me of the current age of comics Tim was the most developed and reason definition of what a Robin should be like. Emotional stable even with all the hardships in life to do the job and still be socially normal.
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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby Punchy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:53 am

bkthomson wrote:Damian was just a more extreme Jason, who looked how that ended. To me of the current age of comics Tim was the most developed and reason definition of what a Robin should be like. Emotional stable even with all the hardships in life to do the job and still be socially normal.


I think Tim Drake is boring. Both him and Dick really.

I guess I like my Robins to be insane dickheads.

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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby Juan Cena » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:57 am

Victorian Squid wrote:You are momentarily forgetting that the "Robin" brand, no matter who it is in the underwear, is an IP that DC isn't exactly going to sit on. There's always going to be a Robin around somewhere.


This.

I expect Red Robin will be dropping the "Red" from his name shortly.
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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby bkthomson » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:58 am

Punchy wrote:
I think Tim Drake is boring. Both him and Dick really.

I guess I like my Robins to be insane dickheads.


I have no problems with that.

Way I see it, and I think Tim addressed this when he became Robin is that Batman needs Robin to counter balance the person so that he does not go over the edge. So I always found Batman to be a dickhead myself and that is where Robin balances it but when you have two dickheads there is no self-control.
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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby Punchy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:01 am

bkthomson wrote:
I have no problems with that.

Way I see it, and I think Tim addressed this when he became Robin is that Batman needs Robin to counter balance the person so that he does not go over the edge. So I always found Batman to be a dickhead myself and that is where Robin balances it but when you have two dickheads there is no self-control.


But when Tim was Robin it seemed like he was never really Batman's partner. He spent most of his time on solo adventures in his own book, or teaming with Young Justice and then the Teen Titans.

And also, when Damian first became Robin, the sensible, calm Dick Grayson was Batman, so the dynamic was flipped, Batman was stopping Robin going over the edge.

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Re: In modern comics, should there really be a Robin anymore

Postby chap22 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:02 am

i can see why you make the argument, ESF. but tbh, if you're asking that question, as legitimate as it may be from a logic standpoint, then it sounds to me like you're the one who's ceased believing a man can fly. and based on your posting history, i really don't believe that to be the case.

yes, i believe there should be a Robin. what i DON'T believe is that they should keep changing who that Robin is as fast as they've been doing lately. Dick was Robin for 45 years. Tim for 20-ish. other than those 2, the average length of time anyone's played that role has been the equivalent of a cup of coffee in the Show (Bull Durham/sports reference for those of you who don't get it). i believe there should be a Robin, and i believe it should be Damian Wayne (and boy i never thought i'd say THAT 5 years ago). but then, i'm one of those crazy old-timers who really feels like death in comics is an overplayed, overused hackneyed plot device that needs to be toned way, WAY down.
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