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by **Keb** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:47 pm

Rockman wrote:I don't think we've seen Duncan since season 2.

I know

by **thefourthman** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:42 pm

I'm still watching it, but it honestly feels like a caricature of the show this season. I think they took too much time off and they forgot how to play their roles.

by **Log-Man** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:10 am

I realized today a big part of the problem right now. The character balance is completely off. Abed is the star now, and he really shouldn't be. I say that as a huge fan of the character, but story-wise he's a supporting character and works best in that role. He's also the most popular, though, so they decided to give him the lead which throws everything off. We've seen it a million times in a million different shows, from Fonzi on Happy Days to Sheldon on Big Bang Theory. It's a fan service trap that never pays off. And in Abed's case it's even worse because they're trying to separate him from Troy, killing half of the character's special appeal immediately.

The Dean is undergoing a similar transformation, getting too big for his actual role in the story.

Pierce and Shirley are non-existent, and even Jeff and Brita are relegated to relatively minor roles now.

Until the Greendale Seven becomes the star again, with the right balance, it will never feel right. At least, that's part of it. As has already been noted, there are several other things that are off, from editing to dialogue, but I think this may be the big one for me.

by **Keb** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:31 am

Log-Man wrote:I realized today a big part of the problem right now. The character balance is completely off. Abed is the star now, and he really shouldn't be. I say that as a huge fan of the character, but story-wise he's a supporting character and works best in that role. He's also the most popular, though, so they decided to give him the lead which throws everything off. We've seen it a million times in a million different shows, from Fonzi on Happy Days to Sheldon on Big Bang Theory. It's a fan service trap that never pays off. And in Abed's case it's even worse because they're trying to separate him from Troy, killing half of the character's special appeal immediately.

The Dean is undergoing a similar transformation, getting too big for his actual role in the story.

Pierce and Shirley are non-existent, and even Jeff and Brita are relegated to relatively minor roles now.

Until the Greendale Seven becomes the star again, with the right balance, it will never feel right. At least, that's part of it. As has already been noted, there are several other things that are off, from editing to dialogue, but I think this may be the big one for me.

I definitely agree. Since season 3 the show has become way too abed-centric and it throws off the entire dynamic.

by **S.F. Jude Terror** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:02 am

So do you guys think this is gonna be the last season?

by **Punchy** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:26 am

thefourthman wrote:I'm still watching it, but it honestly feels like a caricature of the show this season. I think they took too much time off and they forgot how to play their roles.

I don't think they took of that much more time than usual, these were all filmed to air in October.

by **fieldy snuts** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:06 am

have to agree about pierce, he was barely noticeable, even in the episode centered around his actual house.

by **mrorangesoda** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:37 am

Punchy wrote:
I don't think they took of that much more time than usual, these were all filmed to air in October.

Yeah, they've been done with these for a while. The difference is in the writing without Dan Harmon. I'm still enjoying it though.

by **CountD** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:17 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:So do you guys think this is gonna be the last season?

yep

by **CountD** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:51 pm

Log-Man wrote:I realized today a big part of the problem right now. The character balance is completely off. Abed is the star now, and he really shouldn't be. I say that as a huge fan of the character, but story-wise he's a supporting character and works best in that role. He's also the most popular, though, so they decided to give him the lead which throws everything off. We've seen it a million times in a million different shows, from Fonzi on Happy Days to Sheldon on Big Bang Theory. It's a fan service trap that never pays off. And in Abed's case it's even worse because they're trying to separate him from Troy, killing half of the character's special appeal immediately.

The Dean is undergoing a similar transformation, getting too big for his actual role in the story.

Pierce and Shirley are non-existent, and even Jeff and Brita are relegated to relatively minor roles now.

Until the Greendale Seven becomes the star again, with the right balance, it will never feel right. At least, that's part of it. As has already been noted, there are several other things that are off, from editing to dialogue, but I think this may be the big one for me.

hammer, meet head of nail.

by **Punchy** » Fri May 10, 2013 6:54 am

Bumping this thread so me and Zero can continue our Twitter convo and also so we can discuss the Season 4 finale.

by **Zero** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:09 am

So Season 4 was obviously missing Dan Harmon, but what I was really missing for me was the heart of the characters. My favourite episodes are Mixology Certification (Troy's 21st) and Abed's Uncontrollable Christmas (Claymation) because they really do well at getting the characters' insides out on display. This year the only times I've got that was Troy and Britta's break-up via Abed. It was Abed being there for Troy in a way only Abed ever could be and I was really moved by the idea of it.

On the other hand the finale was a great time to show Jeff afraid of how much he's changed but really all we got was a deeply unfunny reference to something the fanbase really latched onto: The Darkest Timeline. (DT Annie is amazing though.) That sums up my problem pretty nicely. The show has coasted by on referential humour since day one but season four has had Community referring far more to itself than to anything else. The Inspector Spacetime convention would not have been so bad, but it wasn't funny. I don't wanna get bogged down in examples of times the season wasn't funny, because that would just be listing the episodes.

Chevy was barely present this year, and that's a shame but after seeing how they handled Gilbert I'm not too dissatisfied. His leaving the show was totally glossed over though, and if we hadn't known it was coming the finale barely clued us into it. Also barely present were Leonard, Todd, Neil, Vicky, Chang, Garret and pretty much the whole supporting cast. Greendale felt like a very quiet place for most of the year.

I liked almost every scene the Dean was in though.

by **Punchy** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:16 am

Zero wrote:So Season 4 was obviously missing Dan Harmon, but what I was really missing for me was the heart of the characters. My favourite episodes are Mixology Certification (Troy's 21st) and Abed's Uncontrollable Christmas (Claymation) because they really do well at getting the characters' insides out on display. This year the only times I've got that was Troy and Britta's break-up via Abed. It was Abed being there for Troy in a way only Abed ever could be and I was really moved by the idea of it.

On the other hand the finale was a great time to show Jeff afraid of how much he's changed but really all we got was a deeply unfunny reference to something the fanbase really latched onto: The Darkest Timeline. (DT Annie is amazing though.) That sums up my problem pretty nicely. The show has coasted by on referential humour since day one but season four has had Community referring far more to itself than to anything else. The Inspector Spacetime convention would not have been so bad, but it wasn't funny. I don't wanna get bogged down in examples of times the season wasn't funny, because that would just be listing the episodes.

Chevy was barely present this year, and that's a shame but after seeing how they handled Gilbert I'm not too dissatisfied. His leaving the show was totally glossed over though, and if we hadn't known it was coming the finale barely clued us into it. Also barely present were Leonard, Todd, Neil, Vicky, Chang, Garret and pretty much the whole supporting cast. Greendale felt like a very quiet place for most of the year.

I liked almost every scene the Dean was in though.

I thought the Jeff and his dad stuff was well-done and appropriately emotional.

I agree with a lot of your criticisms about this Season, but I feel like most of them applied to, if not the show as a whole, but at least Season 3, which had a lot of problems with towards the back-end. Yes, it was self-referential in Season 4, but it was always self-referential, going back to the second Paintball storyline.

I just don't see why so many people are criticising Season 4 for doing just what Season 3 did. It's probably due to the lack of Harmon, but my feelings on the Cult Of Harmon are well known, and I think that, whilst Harmon seemed to be losing it by the end of his tenure, it's only now that Guarascio and Port are getting the hang of things, the last 3 or 4 episodes have actually been really good. It seems like people have a problem with fan-service because it's not coming from one specific person.

I'd like to see a Season 5, I'd like to see what the show is like now that the new guys have had a year to see what works for them.

by **Victorian Squid** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:22 am

A middling show that coasted downhill and off a cliff.

by **CountD** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:23 am

I kind of hope this show is done.

It's like watching a rollercoaster derail.

Every scene Pierce is in makes you stop and :smt017

.

They've exhausted the alternate timeline idea-something I loved initially. I realize they tied it all together with the paintball theme, but it just felt forced and lacking imho.

Goodbye, Community! I'll remember your earlier seasons much more fondly.