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Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

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Arion
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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Arion » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:25 pm

Zero wrote:
The mods should just merge them all on sight. Then threadkick Nac.


I know you love the Legion threads. And who wouldn't? They are a lot of old school fun.

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby MrBlack » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:52 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
Bingo. The Legion's concept isn't wrong. Levitz just isn't the right creator for the job anymore.

The same thing happened when Waid left. DC gave the book over to Shooter, which failed because his writing skills aren't what they were. Readers started going elsewhere, or turned to the abortion Johns was cooking up with his "classic Legion" knockoff.


What Blue is saying is that the concept is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what anyone does with the book, it just won't sell based on the concept alone.

What is relevant is the writer. Waid had people on board on name alone. Shooter quickly sank the book, and Levitz isn't doing much better; modern readers just don't care about them. Throw a major talent at the book and people would be on board. Even Johns, whom you loathe so much, would turn sales around, as he has done in the past with other marginal properties.

The thing is, I don't see any reason for DC to do that unless an established writer asks for the book. They're not going to assign top talent to a book that can only garner marginal sales when they could reap more sales by putting such talent on a better property. Johns is a good example. Compare his Justice League numbers to his Aquaman numbers. If you could only put him on one book, which would it be?

The bottom line is that the concept isn't strong enough to sell books on its own anymore. It needs a big name writer or artist on board to keep it alive, and DC does not have any incentive to assign such talent to the book. Heck, the only reason it's likely around at this point is because Didio and Johns have a soft spot for the concept. Expect to see the concept reworked again and again to attract sales until it is inevitably granted the mercy of cancellation.

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Zero » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:07 pm

Arion wrote:
I know you love the Legion threads. And who wouldn't? They are a lot of old school fun.


They're a reliable source of consistent laughs, but the format is in danger of getting stale. Might be time to add some new blood.

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby guitargod694 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:22 pm

Arion wrote:
I know you love the Legion threads. And who wouldn't? They are a lot of old school fun.


Legion threads used to be great. They'd have 20-30 page runs.
but these neo-classic Legion threads are a total flop and until the Outhouse kicks Nac off of them and gets some top-tier posters involved, the threads are just going to continue to languish.
-Bill-

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Juan Cena » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:25 pm

MrBlack wrote:
What Blue is saying is that the concept is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what anyone does with the book, it just won't sell based on the concept alone.

What is relevant is the writer. Waid had people on board on name alone. Shooter quickly sank the book, and Levitz isn't doing much better; modern readers just don't care about them. Throw a major talent at the book and people would be on board. Even Johns, whom you loathe so much, would turn sales around, as he has done in the past with other marginal properties.

The thing is, I don't see any reason for DC to do that unless an established writer asks for the book. They're not going to assign top talent to a book that can only garner marginal sales when they could reap more sales by putting such talent on a better property. Johns is a good example. Compare his Justice League numbers to his Aquaman numbers. If you could only put him on one book, which would it be?

The bottom line is that the concept isn't strong enough to sell books on its own anymore. It needs a big name writer or artist on board to keep it alive, and DC does not have any incentive to assign such talent to the book. Heck, the only reason it's likely around at this point is because Didio and Johns have a soft spot for the concept. Expect to see the concept reworked again and again to attract sales until it is inevitably granted the mercy of cancellation.


Getting away from the concept is what damaged Legion in the first place. When Giffen decided to take Legion, and place it a more dystopic future five years after the team had broken up, the result was a comic that by the end was so hopelessly broken that the decision was made to reboot after Zero Hour.

If there's a problem with the book now (besides Levitz), its that the characters are still older than they probably should be. The team needed to be deaged a few years when Flashpoint started, back to where the team was in it's late teens and early twenties, while keeping continuity mostly intact. The original timeline mattered more to the majority of fans than anything else.

You've got to separate what works with a book from what doesn't, and build on that. Otherwise, you'll fracture and alienate your fanbase to no end.
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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Zero » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:23 am

Nac, they have separated out what works and what doesn't. That's why Mark Waid is writing other titles and Legion is off somewhere away from him.

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Punchy » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:22 am

Zero wrote:
They're a reliable source of consistent laughs, but the format is in danger of getting stale. Might be time to add some new blood.


So you're saying we should reboot the Legion threads?

Perhaps we should all post as if it was 5 years in the future and everything is dystopian as shit.

Or perhaps we should post like snotty teenagers and shout 'Eat It Grandpa!' (haha, yes, I know I already do this)

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:59 am

Zero wrote:Nac, they have separated out what works and what doesn't. That's why Mark Waid is writing other titles and Legion is off somewhere away from him.



They didn't do a good job then so sorting.

Also, they didn't take what worked and built on that. Instead they just took the Legionaries, gave them code names that were more stupid than their original ones, and restarted the continuity. Then they tried the Threeboot, and most Legion fans absolutely freaked out.

Waid told a good story with the Threeboot, and if DC hasn't stabbed him in the back, he might have been able to finish telling it. Instead, it brought back something similar to the old continuity, but didn't fix the huge problems staring it in its face when doing so. (Older characters, continuity issues, gratuitous retconning, etc.)
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"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:00 pm

Punchy wrote:
So you're saying we should reboot the Legion threads?

Perhaps we should all post as if it was 5 years in the future and everything is dystopian as shit.

Or perhaps we should post like snotty teenagers and shout 'Eat It Grandpa!' (haha, yes, I know I already do this)


Retconnig me into a snotty teenager? :shock:

Well, there are some things I'd do different...
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"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Arion » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:35 pm

Zero wrote:
They're a reliable source of consistent laughs, but the format is in danger of getting stale. Might be time to add some new blood.


We need new readers! er, I mean, new posters.

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:37 pm

Arion wrote:
We need new readers! er, I mean, new posters.


Both honestly.
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"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Arion » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:51 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
Both honestly.


Yes.

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Juan Cena » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:55 pm

Interesting article on the subject.
DC New 52 doesn’t get a pass here either. Their Justice League Dark isn’t really a Justice League team, but an A-Team of their top fantasy characters.

Legion Lost, a sci-fi stranger-in-a-strange-land series is cancelled and Legion of the Super-Heroes is struggling sales despite the love and passion writer Paul Levitz is putting into it. Interestingly, Bleeding Cool has reported that DC’s plans to fix the LOSH is make them Tomorrow’s Justice League:

“But just as the Justice League Of America have modelled and matched themselves to the Justice League, a counterpart for each, so the 31st Century Legion Of Superheroes will also begin to model themselves on the 21st century Justice League. A counterpart for each. A League Of Superheroes.”

Despite my many years of reading comics, I am a recent convert to LOSH. I think the stories are great. They have high drama and action in equal measure and the stories under Levitz’s pen are entertaining. If branding the book differently will make it sellable, I’m all for it. However, will the book lose its soul as a League of Superheroes; I’m curious if the League will be the concept or whether the book will be renamed or gain a subhead like “Tomorrow’s Justice League”. Time will tell.


Also talks about the "Avengers-tication" of Guradians of the Galaxy.

http://insidepulse.com/2013/04/15/demythify-justice-league-avengers-save-dc-new-52-marvel-now-final-frontiers-but-at-what-cost-losh-guardians-of-the-galaxy-star-trek-into-darkness/
Image

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

Arion
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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Arion » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:19 pm

At this point, only a good creative team will save the Legion.

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Re: Uncle Rich has a Legion rumor.

Postby Juan Cena » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:35 am

Arion wrote:At this point, only a good creative team will save the Legion.


True. It'll take a really good one to pull it completely out of the downward spiral, and one that will stick around for at least a year or two.

DC's gonna seriously need to get a) A writer who has a good handle on modern SF and has a grasp of current science and tech trends and theory. B)An artist who can actually draw and has a clear vision.
Image

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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