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Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games (Update)

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby Rockman » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:48 pm

Olivia from fringe seems like a pretty strong character to me :smt102

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby GLX » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:53 pm

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby guitargod694 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:16 pm

HNutz wrote:
Wha?

THOSE are her "bad examples"?

Yeah, that's insane.



Yeah, those were on her list of characters that had suffered this "mystical pregnancy" trope which is apparently a bad thing? Perhaps I missed the point.
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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby guitargod694 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:19 pm

GLX wrote:



yeah, i watched that one too.

I can relate to being a little weirded out by some men's interest in high school aged girls.
I'm not sure I'd draw the conclusion that 22 year old women pretending to be sexualized 16 year old girls is in the same ballpark as pedophilia, though.
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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby Keb » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:33 pm

GLX wrote:

The more videos you post by her, the more convinced I am that she's perpetuating gender inequality and conflict by pushing a "progressive"agenda that essentially brands male-centered media as evil (thus men).

The GQ mag Glee shoot was obviously aimed at straight men so they might take interest in a show that appeals mostly to women and gay men. The idea behind it is that with an interest in the show, maybe straight men will watch with their SOs creating a common bond while increasing viewership. This is something she falls to understand in order to use this as a whipping boy for her anti-patriarchy argument.

She makes a good point about pedophilia being brought into question but she really falls to address the issue of why that schoolgirl fantasy exists. Instead she again uses itas a a sticking point to lambast men for an overly sexualized media.

On the flip side, there's that poolboy fantasy and a strong sexualization of young men that also exists that is perpetuated among out media today. How about the notion of cougars, who "prey"on younger, often coming-of-age men? That's not a male created fantasy as that type of woman does exist and I've known a few in my lifetime.

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby eltopo » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:50 am

habitual wrote:
Keb missed only one important point: Armenian chicks are crazy in the sack!

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby Rockman » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:04 am

Keb wrote:The more videos you post by her, the more convinced I am that she's perpetuating gender inequality and conflict by pushing a "progressive"agenda that essentially brands male-centered media as evil (thus men).

The GQ mag Glee shoot was obviously aimed at straight men so they might take interest in a show that appeals mostly to women and gay men. The idea behind it is that with an interest in the show, maybe straight men will watch with their SOs creating a common bond while increasing viewership. This is something she falls to understand in order to use this as a whipping boy for her anti-patriarchy argument.

She makes a good point about pedophilia being brought into question but she really falls to address the issue of why that schoolgirl fantasy exists. Instead she again uses itas a a sticking point to lambast men for an overly sexualized media.

On the flip side, there's that poolboy fantasy and a strong sexualization of young men that also exists that is perpetuated among out media today. How about the notion of cougars, who "prey"on younger, often coming-of-age men? That's not a male created fantasy as that type of woman does exist and I've known a few in my lifetime.


This video particularly attacked the GQ article, which I think is kind of pointless.

As far as the show goes, and others like it I can see where she's coming from. You have a show about highschool students and they are sexualized and include suggestive imagery and the like. Sure they are grown women but within the context of the show I've always found it a little creepy.

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby Keb » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:30 am

Another thing that bugs me about her is her branding of sexualization as something negative. I get it, you don't like being objectified, but as humans this is how we operate and have done so for centuries. I find that last video disturbing because she seems to want to go on some "educational" rant about sexuality and how we should be teaching it in schools but the fact of the matter is that sexuality is something very personal and not exactly possible to brand and serve out to students.

A huge problem I have with her stance is that she wants to portray equal and being the same. Maybe I am projecting a bit on her, but this is my understanding. She wants women to be equal to men in man-media, but she doesn't understand that being equal doesn't necessarily mean being the same. I've always seen equality as being different but accepted. For example, in math, 2+1=3. If we were to split that equation into two sides down the equal side, 2+1 becomes a different way of showing the value of 3, but the equal sign itself is a reconciling of the two difference. When it comes to Anita Sarkeesian and men, there is very little, if not any reconciliation.

Which brings me back to sexuality. In one of those rebuttal videos, the dude talked about how she was an anti-sex feminist (and wasn't even really that), and I think it goes to say she's a little more than anti-sex. She appears to want to empower women without them having to use their sexuality but she is (willfully, IMO) negligent of the fact that sexual power has been one of the greatest driving forces in art and media for the last 500+ years.

When she argues that the damsel in distress is powerless, she is negligent that the damsel does indeed have power over both men as they are apparently feuding over her protection. The damsel herself is not the prize but her sexuality is and thus she becomes sexually empowered. The whole chivalrous trope relies heavily on the extensive female sexuality and how it drives the quest. In an age where sex sells, why wouldn't one want to be sexually empowered?

In a world where corporations objectify consumers and the branding and numeration of people as commodity, the idea of the individual is wildly disproportionate. How can we as people be individual if we are being branded like cattle by the same very corporations we are all working for and consuming from? There's a hypocritical thought process here where we are all striving to be truly unique individuals by being such singular, self-minded beings but at the same time we mass-consume media and product that doesn't really differentiate any of us from each other. Objectification is something that humans have been doing for centuries as we've progressed from small bands and tribes into villages, cities and countries. As populations get concentrated, objectivity becomes more frequent as people become numbers and individuality gets replaced by statistics.

It's more than possible to be an individual in a small community of peers and family. It's harder to be an individual in a larger community but the larger your community grows, the harder it is to stand out from the crowd. When we are young, we are told to "stand out" from the crowd. As we grow older, we either blend in or we try hard to stand away from the crowd. Now as we are into our adulthood, the mission should be how to navigate through the crowd as opposed to standing out or aside or blending in, whatever.

For someone who is all about progress, she seems to be pushing this regressive individualistic "don't objectify me" rhetoric that really doesn't work to solve the problems of today. She just appears to be some dumb-it-down academic who hasn't had an original thought or experienced the lowest points of life, choosing to stand on a sheltered mountaintop and cast judgement against those that she feels she's been excluded/ignored by. The fact that she's got so many fans/followers really bothers me because it just shows that people aren't willing to think and assess for themselves and need to be told what's good and bad by other people.

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby HNutz » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:27 am

guitargod694 wrote:

yeah, i watched that one too.

I can relate to being a little weirded out by some men's interest in high school aged girls.
I'm not sure I'd draw the conclusion that 22 year old women pretending to be sexualized 16 year old girls is in the same ballpark as pedophilia, though.


Does she also get into "Twlight Moms" and their swooning over shirtless actors pretending to be high school age characters?

Yeah, probably not.

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:32 am

Keb is owning this broad.
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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby dairydead » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:37 am

apparently no one knows what pedophilia is
The Firelord to Hawk's Galactus

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby guitargod694 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:43 am

HNutz wrote:
Does she also get into "Twlight Moms" and their swooning over shirtless actors pretending to be high school age characters?

Yeah, probably not.


I haven't seen her say anything about Twilight in the videos I saw... so I dunno.
But I also doubt it.

In the videos I watched, the only time she brings up any concerns about how pop culture effects boys/men is when she is concerned it gives them the idea it's ok to objectify women or that it teaches them that violence is ok.

That said, I don't expect her to spend time on that. Her work is about feminism and women's issues. Just because there are issues for men as well doesn't make her points any more or less valid. And she doesn't have to offer that side of things along with her points. I disagree with a bit of what she says, but never because "it happens to men too".
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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby Keb » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:39 pm

My mom used to go to these conferences for people who ran law offices and every time she'd come back from them she'd bring me a bag full of stuff that sales reps would hand out. Pens, paper products, mouse pads, other random office crap. One time she brought back this round rubber circle thing. At first I thought it was a small mouse pad, but then I read the instructions on the packaging. Apparently its use is to grip objects such as jars (it's also nifty for removing garlic skin). I thought to myself "Shit, if women get ahold of this, its over for men." I have kept it in the kitchen and to this day no one in my family has any clue what it is.

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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby GLX » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:42 pm

guitargod694 wrote:
I haven't seen her say anything about Twilight in the videos I saw... so I dunno.


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Re: Feminist Frequency: Women vs. Tropes in Video Games

Postby GLX » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:51 pm

My favorite part of the GQ video is that she censored the actresses' butt and legs out of "good taste". :lol:

There were remarks in the comments section about how men shouldn't be sexualized either.



But she closed and erased all comments.



Even though she's barred them for a year or so.
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