The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **syxxpakk** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:54 pm

Admitting you're wrong just too hard to do eh? :lol:

by **Juan Cena** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:10 pm

syxxpakk wrote:Admitting you're wrong just too hard to do eh?

No, it's just I can look at a big picture situation better.

by **Arion** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:02 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
The difference is that Meltzer is a part-timer. Comics aren't his main focus. He comes in, throws things around, and leaves without any serious effort to clean up after his mess. Which is mostly the opposite of how Morrison works.

I'm glad to see that, although we are not exactly on the same page the debate has been quite interesting.

About Meltzer, I don't know. Let's asume I am a novelist (which I'm not) and I'm also a comic book writer (which I am if you take into account my indy stuff). I would hate to make a decision, if I could I would keep writing novels and comics. And I honestly don't think one thing invalidates the other.

by **Juan Cena** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:15 pm

Arion wrote:
I'm glad to see that, although we are not exactly on the same page the debate has been quite interesting.

About Meltzer, I don't know. Let's asume I am a novelist (which I'm not) and I'm also a comic book writer (which I am if you take into account my indy stuff). I would hate to make a decision, if I could I would keep writing novels and comics. And I honestly don't think one thing invalidates the other.

Except that you have to take time away from one to do the other. Which is why someone like Gaiman doesn't write many comics anymore. It took forever for him to commit to writing a new Sandman story, and I'm sure DC had to fork out a lot of money for that. (Because that was the reason he said he hasn't been writing more Sandman stories before this).

by **habitual** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:11 pm

Meltzer in the long run will ultimately be viewed as good for the JL title.

It brought back too many readers for anything else to matter, it's one of the few things Didio did correctly.

Hab

by **Juan Cena** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:21 pm

habitual wrote:Meltzer in the long run will ultimately be viewed as good for the JL title.

It brought back too many readers for anything else to matter, it's one of the few things Didio did correctly.

Hab

It was still a mercenary move with only a short-term gain. Once Meltzer left, and DC slowly removed Supes, Bruce, Diana, Hal, etc, from the book, sales started dropping. Not as bad as Legion, mind you. But enough to keep it out of the top 20.

by **habitual** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:54 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
It was still a mercenary move with only a short-term gain. Once Meltzer left, and DC slowly removed Supes, Bruce, Diana, Hal, etc, from the book, sales started dropping. Not as bad as Legion, mind you. But enough to keep it out of the top 20.

I think you drastically underestimate the number of readers that not only picked up a JL book, but, started picking up comics either again or for the first time based on the PR campaign this book received.

That's ultimately all that matters.

Hab

by **Juan Cena** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:04 pm

habitual wrote:
I think you drastically underestimate the number of readers that not only picked up a JL book, but, started picking up comics either again or for the first time based on the PR campaign this book received.

That's ultimately all that matters.

Hab

But how much of it was short-term sales, as opposed to long-term growth? What good is bringing in a writer for a limited run if sales go back down to the pre-run levels (or lower) when he leaves?

by **habitual** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:08 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
But how much of it was short-term sales, as opposed to long-term growth? What good is bringing in a writer for a limited run if sales go back down to the pre-run levels (or lower) when he leaves?

Because long term growth is the ultimate the goal of the industry, the bulk of what we see in comics is done to serve it, and in Meltzer's case it worked extremely well. If you achieve that everything else is irrelevant.

Hab

by **Juan Cena** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:36 pm

habitual wrote:
Because long term growth is the ultimate the goal of the industry, the bulk of what we see in comics is done to serve it, and in Meltzer's case it worked extremely well. If you achieve that everything else is irrelevant.

Hab

Is all that growth due to Meltzer, or to writers like Snyder or Bendis or Johns who have stayed on books long-term and became architects of what went on in Marvel and DC?

As for Justice League...

15 JLA 125 $2.50 (last JLA issue) DC 74,313

2 Justice League of America 12 (Meltzier's last issue) $3.50 DC 131,412

A year later

12 Justice League of America 24 $2.99 DC 81,408

two years later

29 Justice League of America 36 $2.99 DC 57,488

So much for long term growth...

by **habitual** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:20 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
Is all that growth due to Meltzer, or to writers like Snyder or Bendis or Johns who have stayed on books long-term and became architects of what went on in Marvel and DC?

As for Justice League...

15 JLA 125 $2.50 (last JLA issue) DC 74,313

2 Justice League of America 12 (Meltzier's last issue) $3.50 DC 131,412

A year later

12 Justice League of America 24 $2.99 DC 81,408

two years later

29 Justice League of America 36 $2.99 DC 57,488

So much for long term growth...

No, it was for Meltzer, the press was for a Meltzer book.

You overfocusing on JL sales is a straw man when we were discussing gaining or in some cases regaining long term buyers in total.

So, you're way off base here.

Hab

by **habitual** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:23 pm

Also I'd love to see a Meltzer/Giffen collaboration on Legion some day :smt038

Hab

by **Juan Cena** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:45 pm

habitual wrote:Also I'd love to see a Meltzer/Giffen collaboration on Legion some day

Hab

by **Juan Cena** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:59 pm

habitual wrote:
No, it was for Meltzer, the press was for a Meltzer book.

You overfocusing on JL sales is a straw man when we were discussing gaining or in some cases regaining long term buyers in total.

So, you're way off base here.

Hab

Do you have any hard numbers on this? Did Meltzer cause a long-term sales bump in Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, or in any of the books that weren't Identity Crisis crossovers?

by **Arion** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:31 am

Juan Cena wrote:
Except that you have to take time away from one to do the other. Which is why someone like Gaiman doesn't write many comics anymore. It took forever for him to commit to writing a new Sandman story, and I'm sure DC had to fork out a lot of money for that. (Because that was the reason he said he hasn't been writing more Sandman stories before this).

What Gaimen explained is that he gets certain percentage when he sells his novels, and in DC that percentage is a whole lot less. I don't see that as asking more money, only what is fair.

I'd love to have him writing more comics, but we can always read his novels and enjoy them just as much, eh?