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guitarsmashley

Regular-Sized Poster

Postby guitarsmashley » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:39 pm

Amoebas wrote:Hank Pym has now apparently been murdered in July 1967.

So he didn't accidently create Ultron.
And so Ultron never created the Vision.
Who never married the Scarlet Witch.
Who never had kids that were taken from her.
So she never went crazy.

And therefore Bendis never had a career in comics.

Yeah. I can live with that.


So house of M never happened? Or Avengers Dissembled? Or Grant Morrison's New X-Men and Jean Grey is still alive...in only one time period.
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alaska1125

dINGO

Postby alaska1125 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:40 pm

Grayson wrote:
Cyclops is still pretty far from being Magneto. Like I said, Cyclops is still working to protect both mutants and humans. I haven't seen any issues featuring Cyclops going to an anti-mutant protest, taking hostages, and holding them for ransom until his demands are met. To my knowledge, Cyclops hasn't gathered a collection of stolen nuclear missiles and pointed them at various countries around the world. In fact, aside from being a fugitive for a crime he didn't actually commit, I can't think of a single thing that Cyclops is currently doing that would make him Magneto or a villain in general.

I'd encourage you to reread the last few years of X-Men books without the AvX blinders on. His crawl toward embracing his inner Magneto is pretty blatant. Scott Summers: Super Villain.
And as an aside, when has it been mentioned that he's working to protect humans??? When he was the "benevolent" overlord as a Phoenix???
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S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:46 pm

:lol:
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habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:16 pm

alaska1125 wrote:I'd encourage you to reread the last few years of X-Men books without the AvX blinders on. His crawl toward embracing his inner Magneto is pretty blatant. Scott Summers: Super Villain.
And as an aside, when has it been mentioned that he's working to protect humans??? When he was the "benevolent" overlord as a Phoenix???


I'd say that's pretty ridiculous. :lol:

Hab
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:30 pm

alaska1125 wrote:I'd encourage you to reread the last few years of X-Men books without the AvX blinders on. His crawl toward embracing his inner Magneto is pretty blatant. Scott Summers: Super Villain.
And as an aside, when has it been mentioned that he's working to protect humans??? When he was the "benevolent" overlord as a Phoenix???


I have been reading X-Books off and on for several years. Ever since House of M, Cyclops has been forced to adopt a more aggressive stance but come on, look at all the things that were happening around him. Mutants are almost entirely wiped out in a matter of moments. The United States Government forces Cyclops to allow Sentinels, machines designed to kill mutants, onto the school grounds for "their own protection." Anti-mutant hate groups like the Purifiers, increased their aggression toward the remaining mutants, including murdering several students, mutant or otherwise, on the actual school grounds. An actual super villain took control of S.H.I.E.L.D., created his own team of "X-Men," and chased the real X-Men off of US soil. Sentinels attempted to wipe out a second island nation of mutants without anyone, from the Avengers to Power Pack, trying to help them.

Scott Summers himself has declared that he and his X-Men are going to protect everyone, regardless of whether or not they are mutant or human in the current volume of Uncanny X-Men. At worst, Scott Summers is now an Anti-Hero. The only reason that Scott Summers could be considered a villain right now, is because you want him to be a villain.
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S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:41 pm

Grayson wrote:
I have been reading X-Books off and on for several years. Ever since House of M, Cyclops has been forced to adopt a more aggressive stance but come on, look at all the things that were happening around him. Mutants are almost entirely wiped out in a matter of moments. The United States Government forces Cyclops to allow Sentinels, machines designed to kill mutants, onto the school grounds for "their own protection." Anti-mutant hate groups like the Purifiers, increased their aggression toward the remaining mutants, including murdering several students, mutant or otherwise, on the actual school grounds. An actual super villain took control of S.H.I.E.L.D., created his own team of "X-Men," and chased the real X-Men off of US soil. Sentinels attempted to wipe out a second island nation of mutants without anyone, from the Avengers to Power Pack, trying to help them.

Scott Summers himself has declared that he and his X-Men are going to protect everyone, regardless of whether or not they are mutant or human in the current volume of Uncanny X-Men. At worst, Scott Summers is now an Anti-Hero. The only reason that Scott Summers could be considered a villain right now, is because you want him to be a villain.


100% correct, except the last sentence. THe only reason people consider Cyclops a villain is because a group of Marvel editors and writers want him to be a villain and comic fandom is so bizzarre that people feel some kind of loyalty to corporations and their interests and will support said interests, even in the face of shitty storytelling.

The actual events that occurred in Marvel continuity do not make Scott a villain. Who in the Marvel Universe HASN'T done something awful while possessed by a villainous entity? Other than killing Prof X (and really, when someone has died and come back like five times, is it really even murder?), what has Cyclops done wrong besides stick up for himself and his people and disagree with Wolverine (who is a child murderer but considered the greatest hero in the Marvel Universe)?
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alaska1125

dINGO

Postby alaska1125 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:22 pm

I'll admit to being biased as I've thought Summers was an asshat since he abandoned his wife and child in the 80's. That said, I maintain that based on his forced actions and characterization, he has, indeed, become Magneto. That said, we probably should discuss the craptacular "event" that's currently running...
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:36 pm

alaska1125 wrote:I'll admit to being biased as I've thought Summers was an asshat since he abandoned his wife and child in the 80's. That said, I maintain that based on his forced actions and characterization, he has, indeed, become Magneto. That said, we probably should discuss the craptacular "event" that's currently running...


Yeah but nobody wants that... :P
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S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:57 pm

Let's compare this current event to AvX. :P

In AvX, Cyclops, by no choice of his own, is imbued with the power of a bird-themed cosmic death god. He uses this power to make the world a better place for everyone, stopping wars, solving hunger, etc. Eventually, after being relentlessly attacked by the Avengers for no reason, with them forcing MORE power into him each time they take out one of the other Phoenix hosts, he is driven mad and kills Professor X. He is now considered a wanted terrorist.

In AoU, Wolverine decides, of his own free will, to go back in time and murder a famous hero. He has the support of Sue Storm, and everyone knew he was he gonna do that, and they were just like "Oh Wolverine, don't do that," but really they knew he'd do it anyway and they're just like "That Wolverine! What a rascal!" This is the only thing that happened in six issues.

:P
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S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:59 pm

This event really does exemplify all of Bendis's worst qualities (and I like Bendis). I can't wait till it's over so we can see what parts of it carry over into the actual MU and do damage control. Maybe someone will do what Bendis with the shitstain that was AvX and make an awesome All New Avengers comic out of it.
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SuperginraiX

Outhouse Editor

Postby SuperginraiX » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:06 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:Let's compare this current event to AvX. :P

In AvX, Cyclops, by no choice of his own, is imbued with the power of a bird-themed cosmic death god. He uses this power to make the world a better place for everyone, stopping wars, solving hunger, etc. Eventually, after being relentlessly attacked by the Avengers for no reason, with them forcing MORE power into him each time they take out one of the other Phoenix hosts, he is driven mad and kills Professor X. He is now considered a wanted terrorist.

In AoU, Wolverine decides, of his own free will, to go back in time and murder a famous hero. He has the support of Sue Storm, and everyone knew he was he gonna do that, and they were just like "Oh Wolverine, don't do that," but really they knew he'd do it anyway and they're just like "That Wolverine! What a rascal!" This is the only thing that happened in six issues.

:P

:lol:

So true with AvX.

I agree with Alaska on Scott being a douche for leaving his wife and newborn kid. That is probably the worst thing he's ever done. It's also totally out of character for him. Honestly, the first year of X-Factor is probably Cyclops written at his worst. Like there was some crazy editorial mandate to get him to appear in a new series regardless of where he'd been set up in Uncanny X-Men.

I know. Crazy, right?

(ugh, he's a douchenozzle in those issues...)
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Keb

<( ' . ' )>

Postby Keb » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:24 pm

Grayson wrote:
I have been reading X-Books off and on for several years. Ever since House of M, Cyclops has been forced to adopt a more aggressive stance but come on, look at all the things that were happening around him. Mutants are almost entirely wiped out in a matter of moments. The United States Government forces Cyclops to allow Sentinels, machines designed to kill mutants, onto the school grounds for "their own protection." Anti-mutant hate groups like the Purifiers, increased their aggression toward the remaining mutants, including murdering several students, mutant or otherwise, on the actual school grounds. An actual super villain took control of S.H.I.E.L.D., created his own team of "X-Men," and chased the real X-Men off of US soil. Sentinels attempted to wipe out a second island nation of mutants without anyone, from the Avengers to Power Pack, trying to help them.

Scott Summers himself has declared that he and his X-Men are going to protect everyone, regardless of whether or not they are mutant or human in the current volume of Uncanny X-Men. At worst, Scott Summers is now an Anti-Hero. The only reason that Scott Summers could be considered a villain right now, is because you want him to be a villain.

Ha! I don't want him to be a villain but I definitely see where he gets stuck straddling the fence.

Writers try too hard to portray him as stiff and rigid and that makes him come across as a douche and a villain. He is the guy who has to make the hard choices and he really just tries to do what's right for his community and his team. He's like one of those cops who puts the job before everything else.

He reminds me of Jimmy McNulty in the Wire (especially season 5) where he's so committed to a cause that he'll go that extra step into immorality to get the job done. That's basically how I've interpreted him since Morrisson X-Men up to AvX.

I still say Captain America was equally to blame for AvX. Its just that they made the Avengers the underdogs so people would root for them.
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GiveWarAChance

P&#1062;&#1048;K&#1063; &#1042;&#1071;&#1025;&#106

Postby GiveWarAChance » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:32 pm

I really have to start reading this series to see if it's really as bad as you all are making it out to be. I have issues #1-3 sitting somewhere, waiting to be read.
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:35 pm

SuperginraiX wrote:I agree with Alaska on Scott being a douche for leaving his wife and newborn kid. That is probably the worst thing he's ever done. It's also totally out of character for him. Honestly, the first year of X-Factor is probably Cyclops written at his worst. Like there was some crazy editorial mandate to get him to appear in a new series regardless of where he'd been set up in Uncanny X-Men.


In Scott's defense, Madelyne was an evil clone of Jean Grey created by Mr. Sinister. Plus, at least Cyclops didn't kill any children. :P

Keb wrote:I still say Captain America was equally to blame for AvX. Its just that they made the Avengers the underdogs so people would root for them.


I don't know, I feel like had the Avengers been possessed by the Phoenix Force, Cyclops and the X-Men still would have been portrayed as the villains, at least in the eyes of the characters in the Marvel Universe.
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HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:48 pm

Between Civil War, Planet Hulk, AvX, and now Age of Ultron... wouldn't it be nice to have a GOOD crossover event that doesn't center on heroes fighting heroes?

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