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by **MikeinLA** » Wed May 01, 2013 6:59 pm

dairydead wrote:maybe he is as powerful, or even more powerful? He is, after all an imaginary character.

You can justify any example of bad story telling by saying the characters involved are imaginary. It really doesn't mean anything.

by **dairydead** » Wed May 01, 2013 7:01 pm

MikeinLA wrote:

You can justify any example of bad story telling by saying the characters involved are imaginary. It really doesn't mean anything.

All I'm saying that he is , and always will be, as "powerful" as a given writer feels to make him.

by **Keb** » Wed May 01, 2013 7:19 pm

It's a god's axe that's been enchanted by with a (head of pantheon) god's spell so that it has the power to pierce a god's armor.

It wounded Apocalypse because it hit his shoulder. It killed a Celestial because it split that muthafucka's head open. Last I checked, axes to the head > axes to the shoulder.

by **MikeinLA** » Wed May 01, 2013 7:34 pm

Keb wrote:It's a god's axe that's been enchanted by with a (head of pantheon) god's spell so that it has the power to pierce a god's armor.

It wounded Apocalypse because it hit his shoulder. It killed a Celestial because it split that muthafucka's head open. Last I checked, axes to the head > axes to the shoulder.

Celestials have shrugged off attacks from weapons enchanted by the heads of pantheons, by Odin himself. They curbstomped the "Skyfathers" last time they ran afoul of them. But ignoring all of that past continuity, the plot point fails because it contradicts what happens in Remender's own story. Last issue, Apocalypse, a servant of the Celestials, is only wounded by the weapon. This issue, one of the creatures that juiced him up and are infinitely more powerful than is, gets killed by it. Its bad writing designed to make the Apocalypse characters out to be a threat at the expense of logic.

by **Keb** » Wed May 01, 2013 7:50 pm

Again, going back to that issue, Thor's axe swing was defensive, and embedded in Apocalypse's shoulder, whereas Apocalypse Jr. took the Celestial by surprise and skewered the dude's head.

Also, he was a Celestial Gardener, whatever that means, not one of the powerful Celestials from the Eternals.

by **MikeinLA** » Wed May 01, 2013 7:55 pm

Keb wrote:Again, going back to that issue, Thor's axe swing was defensive, and embedded in Apocalypse's shoulder, whereas Apocalypse Jr. took the Celestial by surprise and skewered the dude's head.

Also, he was a Celestial Gardener, whatever that means, not one of the powerful Celestials from the Eternals.

I'm 99.9% sure that was a Celestial, and "Gardener" is his title (most Celestials have one related to whatever their job is).

Also, Celestials don't have heads under their armor.

by **Keb** » Wed May 01, 2013 8:02 pm

Okay. That's nice.

by **dairydead** » Wed May 01, 2013 9:19 pm

characters i like die=bad writing.

by **MikeinLA** » Wed May 01, 2013 9:37 pm

dairydead wrote:characters i like die=bad writing.

Don't know where you're getting that from, since it's not the criteria I follow to determine whether a story is good or not.

by **habitual** » Wed May 01, 2013 9:46 pm

I agree with Mike. A weapon that only wounds Apocalypse shouldn't be able to one shot a Celestial.

Hab

by **Keb** » Wed May 01, 2013 10:19 pm

The enchantment is that the weapon can pierce celestial armor but only to be used if celestial judgment favors execution. Basically a failsafe to ensure survival of the gods. Thor hit apocalypse but the axe embedded into his shoulder. When Uriel hits the celestial gardener, he gets him in the head and it releases the celestial's energy, effectively killing him.

Edit: two things we aren't given: the creator of the enchantment and we also don't know 100% about celestials' weaknesses.

by **habitual** » Wed May 01, 2013 11:49 pm

Keb wrote:The enchantment is that the weapon can pierce celestial armor but only to be used if celestial judgment favors execution. Basically a failsafe to ensure survival of the gods. Thor hit apocalypse but the axe embedded into his shoulder. When Uriel hits the celestial gardener, he gets him in the head and it releases the celestial's energy, effectively killing him.

Edit: two things we aren't given: the creator of the enchantment and we also don't know 100% about celestials' weaknesses.

We do know that Apocalpyse's armor was a gift from the Celestials and it shouldn't be more effective than what they wear.

Not a huge plot problem, but, noticeable.

Hab

by **Keb** » Thu May 02, 2013 6:01 am

Yeah I see where you and Mike are coming from but it just seems like such a minute detail.

I like it because it opens doors in the MU as to who is most powerful and all now. Brings the Celestials down a bit in terms of who runs shit.

by **Arion** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:19 pm

I love the cover. Don't you?

by **Grayson** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:23 pm

Keb wrote:Yeah I see where you and Mike are coming from but it just seems like such a minute detail.

I like it because it opens doors in the MU as to who is most powerful and all now. Brings the Celestials down a bit in terms of who runs shit.

Agreed but I don't think it will last long. There is no way that child protective services will allow Kang to keep homicidal twins with a weapon that can split a cosmic deity's head open.