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Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Four Movie?

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby misac » Fri May 03, 2013 11:59 am

Amoebas wrote:I have no problem with Johnny being black.

What I do have a problem with, is when Marvel eventually turns him black in the comics.

Some sort of slow acting skin coloring disease he caught in the Negative Zone while he was 'dead' or replaced whole out with the Golden Age Human Torch's misplaced 'test' android or etc...


I doubt it. I think they did it with Fury cause they’re all the same company.
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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby Keb » Fri May 03, 2013 12:39 pm

Jack Burton wrote:
Sure if you want to recent stuff.

Me? I'll go with Stan and Jack. Can't beat the classics.

Besides 1960/70's Jack Kirby is many thing but boring is NEVER one of them. Even his worst stuff is interesting.

Read the first issue and the first annual. It's good.

I like Jack Kirby's work without Stan Lee best though.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby pastajoe » Fri May 03, 2013 4:03 pm

Keb wrote:If you guys ever find yourselves in a situation involving an angry black person and go home and reflect on that situation and ask yourselves why black people are so angry, please search and read through this thread. You will understand exactly why black people are so angry.


Next time I see an angry black person I'll ask them, 'Is it the Johnny Storm controversy?'. But those I know personally never appear angry.

Maybe they should get a white actor to play Black Panther if he has the best audition. He was orphaned in Africa, and raised by the king of Wakanda as his son. Problem solved, ethnicity is then irrelevant to the story.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby Thunderstorm » Fri May 03, 2013 5:02 pm

It's stupid every time they do this. I'd rather see a black character from Marvel added to the cast than change a character to be PC. Black Electro... skin color doesn't matter! Blue Electro... how stupid!! Tobey never looked like Peter, but this is fine. :lol:

Now we have a black superhero who sets himself on fire. This will be a huge hit at Klan meetings.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby Keb » Fri May 03, 2013 5:45 pm

pastajoe wrote:
Next time I see an angry black person I'll ask them, 'Is it the Johnny Storm controversy?'. But those I know personally never appear angry.

Maybe they should get a white actor to play Black Panther if he has the best audition. He was orphaned in Africa, and raised by the king of Wakanda as his son. Problem solved, ethnicity is then irrelevant to the story.

It's good that you know black people. I just know people.

Just FYI:
Punchy wrote:
I think it comes down to what I said earlier, most black characters seem to have blackness imbedded into their characters, whereas, white characters, there's nothing that says they have to be white.

This is because of writers writing shitty token characters back in the 1970s and also the fact that white culture is the norm and not something people celebrate or tie-in to their identity (unless they are super-racist), no normal white guy is like, 'Yeah, I'm white! I'm proud of being white!', they find other ways to define themselves, such as being Southern, or Irish, or from New York or being Mormon or whatever.

Whereas minority characters are pretty much always defined by their race, for good or ill.

and
Keb wrote:It's the fact that the dude hasn't even been given a chance to play the role and people are already bitching about it. You've stated and I know that Michael B. Jordan is a very capable actor not just at getting addicted to smack and getting shot by Bodie and Poot but also as in a sci-fi super-powered teenager role because he was great in Chronicle. The wonderful thing about Chronicle is that his character could have been white or black or yellow or mauve or whatever.

The problem is that people keep seeing this as a racial issue or a race-bending thing and they don't actually look beyond the color of the skin. It's an issue because they don't think it's necessary to change the race. If that's your issue, then that means you really aren't seeing beyond the surface. If Michael B. Jordan was a terrible actor and was going to sink the F4 movie franchise with a terrible performance, then the issue would be his (lack of) acting ability. However, that's not the case. Most people here seem to take issue with the fact that his skin tone is brown while the fictional Johnny Storm's skin tone is like a pale, peachy, white-pink color.

At the end of the day, characters can be any color (yes, even black ones). Johnny Storm's traits are such that he represents a universal archetype: reckless teenager/twenty-something male. That archetype can be represented by anyone, no matter what race they are, because there is always a reckless teenager/twenty-something male out there who loves to fix cars and bone chicks, doesn't matter what race he is.



What hypocrisy? The difference between white Marvel comics characters and black Marvel comics characters is that the black characters usually have their race play an important role in who they are. Most white characters don't even realize they're white and in a lot of cases, that person could be anyone when they put on the mask.

For example: Spider-Man could be anyone behind that mask. No matter what race. Even Peter Parker's problems are universal, every dude has them no matter what race he is. The Black Panther couldn't go that way. The fact that he's the king of a secret African nation and that his duty is to protect his people from the would-be colonizers factors heavily into how his character is perceived.

The problem with minority comic book characters is that minority ends up being a big factor in what defines them when really it shouldn't. Even the idea of "minority" just segregates them even more from the rest. The thing is, these fictional characters are not (or should not) be defined by race, gender and age but rather by the archetypes and symbols they represent. As PSA as it sounds, the minute we stop looking at the surface and start look at what's going on underneath, that's when we can really begin to accept and reject.

If Michael B. Jordan plays Johnny Storm like another character on the Wire, then yeah, this casting was no good. But if he plays him like Johnny Storm in the comics, then it's a good casting. Considering his performance in Chronicle (a surprisingly good movie), I think he'll do the latter. Just accept it. He's not "black", he's just a dude.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby ThirtyFiveMinutesAgo » Fri May 03, 2013 5:57 pm

Michael B. Jordan did fantastic work on Parenthood. He had one particularly emotional scene with Monica Potter that made me cry.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby Keb » Fri May 03, 2013 6:04 pm

ThirtyFiveMinutesAgo wrote:Michael B. Jordan did fantastic work on Parenthood. He had one particularly emotional scene with Monica Potter that made me cry.

Did he get shot by Bodie and Poot?

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby ThirtyFiveMinutesAgo » Fri May 03, 2013 6:06 pm

Keb wrote:Did he get shot by Bodie and Poot?


Dude, I'm still watching the first season! I don't remember any references to that on Parenthood, just a Friday Night Lights one.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby Punchy » Fri May 03, 2013 6:09 pm

ThirtyFiveMinutesAgo wrote:
Dude, I'm still watching the first season! I don't remember any references to that on Parenthood, just a Friday Night Lights one.


FNL and Parenthood have the same showrunner, Jason Katims.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby Keb » Fri May 03, 2013 6:11 pm

ThirtyFiveMinutesAgo wrote:
Dude, I'm still watching the first season! I don't remember any references to that on Parenthood, just a Friday Night Lights one.

Still watching the first season of the Wire? :shock:

Are you savoring it or something?

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby jeremy » Fri May 03, 2013 6:55 pm

Keb wrote:It's the fact that the dude hasn't even been given a chance to play the role and people are already bitching about it. You've stated and I know that Michael B. Jordan is a very capable actor not just at getting addicted to smack and getting shot by Bodie and Poot but also as in a sci-fi super-powered teenager role because he was great in Chronicle. The wonderful thing about Chronicle is that his character could have been white or black or yellow or mauve or whatever.

The problem is that people keep seeing this as a racial issue or a race-bending thing and they don't actually look beyond the color of the skin. It's an issue because they don't think it's necessary to change the race. If that's your issue, then that means you really aren't seeing beyond the surface. If Michael B. Jordan was a terrible actor and was going to sink the F4 movie franchise with a terrible performance, then the issue would be his (lack of) acting ability. However, that's not the case. Most people here seem to take issue with the fact that his skin tone is brown while the fictional Johnny Storm's skin tone is like a pale, peachy, white-pink color.

At the end of the day, characters can be any color (yes, even black ones). Johnny Storm's traits are such that he represents a universal archetype: reckless teenager/twenty-something male. That archetype can be represented by anyone, no matter what race they are, because there is always a reckless teenager/twenty-something male out there who loves to fix cars and bone chicks, doesn't matter what race he is.



What hypocrisy? The difference between white Marvel comics characters and black Marvel comics characters is that the black characters usually have their race play an important role in who they are. Most white characters don't even realize they're white and in a lot of cases, that person could be anyone when they put on the mask.

For example: Spider-Man could be anyone behind that mask. No matter what race. Even Peter Parker's problems are universal, every dude has them no matter what race he is. The Black Panther couldn't go that way. The fact that he's the king of a secret African nation and that his duty is to protect his people from the would-be colonizers factors heavily into how his character is perceived.

The problem with minority comic book characters is that minority ends up being a big factor in what defines them when really it shouldn't. Even the idea of "minority" just segregates them even more from the rest. The thing is, these fictional characters are not (or should not) be defined by race, gender and age but rather by the archetypes and symbols they represent. As PSA as it sounds, the minute we stop looking at the surface and start look at what's going on underneath, that's when we can really begin to accept and reject.

If Michael B. Jordan plays Johnny Storm like another character on the Wire, then yeah, this casting was no good. But if he plays him like Johnny Storm in the comics, then it's a good casting. Considering his performance in Chronicle (a surprisingly good movie), I think he'll do the latter. Just accept it. He's not "black", he's just a dude.


So, if there was a black character that didn't have his race so intermixed with his identity, you really think nobody would care if the character were made white in a movie? I certainly don't, it would still be a huge deal, people would just have one less complaint about it.

I think race is part of these characters because they are who they've been for decades, in various media (comics, tv, movies). Hell, some people complained that Peter's eyes weren't the right color in the first set of movies, or that Hugh Jackman is too tall for Wolverine. Now I'm not thinking quite that far, but if you are going to cast someone who is already been drawn a certain way and has an audience, you take appearance into consideration.

Will I hate it b/c they change it? No. But I've never cared much for FF so I kind of take it or leave it, but I could probably see people that are into them or certain characters fanboying about the change.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby Keb » Fri May 03, 2013 8:15 pm

xaraan wrote:
So, if there was a black character that didn't have his race so intermixed with his identity, you really think nobody would care if the character were made white in a movie? I certainly don't, it would still be a huge deal, people would just have one less complaint about it.

I think race is part of these characters because they are who they've been for decades, in various media (comics, tv, movies). Hell, some people complained that Peter's eyes weren't the right color in the first set of movies, or that Hugh Jackman is too tall for Wolverine. Now I'm not thinking quite that far, but if you are going to cast someone who is already been drawn a certain way and has an audience, you take appearance into consideration.

Will I hate it b/c they change it? No. But I've never cared much for FF so I kind of take it or leave it, but I could probably see people that are into them or certain characters fanboying about the change.

I will say that if there was a character who didn't have his race intermixed with his identity, he would not be black.

I will be honest here and you can call me racist but I don't think comic book superheroes were ever created in general to appeal to a specific minority based audience. If they were, we wouldn't have such an issue with diversity now in a universe created fifty years ago. Even now, when we see diversity it's to fulfill a specific target. I really have a problem with that because I don't really think of these when I choose my friends or anything. I choose people I like based on their personality. I don't deal with this in real life, so I don't need this bullshit when I read comics.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby jeremy » Fri May 03, 2013 10:46 pm

I think you have most of a point, there isn't a lot I would disagree with about what your saying on the origins of minority characters.

But I still think any change would be an issue for people out there. It's hard for me to throw out any examples because I don't know every character (black or white) that's out there. Like I said, if they changed someone like Black Panther, it would be obviously a problem, but if there was a character that was just a dude who happened to be black (like you said about johnny being white) and his race was changed. Heads would be exploding.

Mostly I hear, women and minorities have been badly written by mostly white men for decades, so fuck it. Understandable, but doesn't make it not hypocritical.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby mrorangesoda » Fri May 03, 2013 11:01 pm

xaraan wrote:but if there was a character that was just a dude who happened to be black (like you said about johnny being white) and his race was changed. Heads would be exploding


Because they're are like three dozen black superheroes in comics. Changing one to one of the thousands of white superheroes is a bigger deal proportionally.

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Re: Michael Jordan to Play Johnny Storm in New Fantastic Fou

Postby Keb » Fri May 03, 2013 11:01 pm

xaraan wrote:I think you have most of a point.

It's hard for me to throw out any examples because I don't know every character (black or white) that's out there. Like I said, if they changed someone like Black Panther, it would be obviously a problem, but if there was a character that was just a dude who happened to be black (like you said about johnny being white) and his race was changed. Heads would be exploding.

Oh for sure.

But for example, Sir Ben Kingsley, an Indian guy is the Mandarin, a Chinese guy. I'm sure there are some people who are bothered by it but no one here is complaining.

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