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Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby BlueStreak » Thu May 16, 2013 11:39 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
You do realize that in quoting that, you prove my point that Marvel has done the same kinds of publicity and engagement for this series that you said they weren't as a sign of non-support, and that Bendis is right for saying, "It shouldn't be as simple as Wolverine sanctioning someone. There should be more to it than that, because we already know Wolverine would kill Hank Pym if he thought it was OK."

That's the whole concept of writing, isn't it? Taking what we already know would happen and adding layers to it to provide context and conflict and growth?

It's great that Susan Richards made a freaking choice, instead of letting Reed or Tony Stark or Captain America tell her what to do and that everything will be just fine if she does what's she's told, on their mark!


They really haven't given it the same push at all. These interviews and features are being given a lot less trumpetfare than they have in the past. There's no urgency by the websites to get these up, and both Marvel and the creative teams involved have been a lot less chipper to push these interviews on their Twitter feeds. I mean, have you seen any big rundown or conversation about Age of Ultron #8 on any front page of any comic book site? Now you're engaging in Herald level tactics by being deliberately obtuse (see, I can throw around casual insults because I disagree with you too!).
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu May 16, 2013 11:42 am

BlueStreak wrote:
They really haven't given it the same push at all. These interviews and features are being given a lot less trumpetfare than they have in the past. There's no urgency by the websites to get these up, and both Marvel and the creative teams involved have been a lot less chipper to push these interviews on their Twitter feeds. I mean, have you seen any big rundown or conversation about Age of Ultron #8 on any front page of any comic book site? Now you're engaging in Herald level tactics by being deliberately obtuse (see, I can throw around casual insults because I disagree with you too!).


Good Lord, Blue! It's just Thursday! It just came out yesterday! How do you know one isn't coming?
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Punchy » Thu May 16, 2013 11:43 am

You can't say a comic is bad because there haven't been as many promotional interviews as normal, that's dumb.

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Amoebas » Thu May 16, 2013 11:45 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:To say there's no character development is a joke, as well.

Susan Richards allowing Wolverine to kill Hank Pym was significant on any number of levels. The Fantastic Four has always been a concept, a unit, that has been "above the fray." Reed Richards has always been a bit of a douche, but Ben, Johnny and Sue have always had this wholesome air about them.

But you know what? When push comes to shove, when faced with the thought of losing her kids, her reality, everything that she ever knew, it was interesting to see that Susan Richards would still, initially, choose to not let Hank Pym be killed. She didn't want to allow that to happen, she wanted there to be another option, but there wasn't, and she wanted to save her family.

That makes her more human than she's been in years. She's always been the paragon of motherhood and wholesomeness. It's great for her character to actually have to struggle with a moral question. When was the last time that happened?

It wasn't push come to shove. The moment anyone helped Wolverine use the time platform, that person(s) was guilty of murder. Any struggling with it at that very moment when Wolverine sinks his claws was artificial in my eyes.

Having Sue abet murder (twice) is indeed, as you claim, character developement. However, it's bad character develeopment that just makes her a murderer.

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Punchy » Thu May 16, 2013 11:47 am

Amoebas wrote:It wasn't push come to shove. The moment anyone helped Wolverine use the time platform, that person(s) was guilty of murder. Any struggling with it at that very moment when Wolverine sinks his claws was artificial in my eyes.

Having Sue abet murder (twice) is indeed, as you claim, character developement. However, it's bad character develeopment that just makes her a murderer.


I think you have to put it in the context that Ultron murdered her husband, her brother, and the god-father of her children, as well as many other friends, and meant that she had abandoned her children in space.

That's enough to change anyone's perspective.

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby habitual » Thu May 16, 2013 11:49 am

Having a Richards go postal after losing a family member has been a Marvel event staple since Earth-X.

More recycling.

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu May 16, 2013 11:52 am

Amoebas wrote:It wasn't push come to shove. The moment anyone helped Wolverine use the time platform, that person(s) was guilty of murder. Any struggling with it at that very moment when Wolverine sinks his claws was artificial in my eyes.

Having Sue abet murder (twice) is indeed, as you claim, character developement. However, it's bad character develeopment that just makes her a murderer.


Exactly -- that means everybody who was there who let Wolverine go, since he didn't know how to operate the time platform, is culpable.

Again, we don't have to agree on whether it was good or bad development. But clearly, Monica Rambeau, Clint Barton, Peter Parker -- they were fine with Hank Pym getting sanctioned, and that's interesting. They've worked with him, been his teammates, and they let him get killed because it was better for them all.

I think Susan Richards made the choice that many people would've made, twice. Because what she left...it's all gone. Ultron won. He was always going to win, and if you want to tell me that it's ridiculous that everyone knew that effing robot was going to kill them all and they did nothing to find him and stop him, I'd agree with you.

But I'm hopeful that what Sue, Rambeau, Clint...I'm hoping that what they allowed to happen is explored in the future. Because just like AvsX has had lasting repercussions, so should this.
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby habitual » Thu May 16, 2013 11:54 am

What I don't understand is the fact that isn't using Doom's time platform supposed to prevent alternate timelines from occurring?

Why are there two Wolverines?

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu May 16, 2013 11:59 am

habitual wrote:What I don't understand is the fact that isn't using Doom's time platform supposed to prevent alternate timelines from occurring?

Why are there two Wolverines?

Hab


That is a great question -- one that is so obvious, one of two things is going to happen: Bendis is either going to explain it very clearly how you have two versions of the same character, at the same age, at once, or he'll gloss it over and be every bit deserving of the criticism that he would face.

We'll find out which, in these final two issues.
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu May 16, 2013 12:03 pm

To be honest, Hab, I've had a huge problem with the very concept of All-New X-Men for that very reason -- I don't understand how the Young X-Men can be in the present, interact with all the things they have, then go back to the past at some point because that's what the timeline demands.

I'm not a big fan of time travel stories, as I've said before. But I haven't complained about it as much because I'm trying to let these creators tell the story in the way they've plotted it out.
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Amoebas » Thu May 16, 2013 12:14 pm

habitual wrote:What I don't understand is the fact that isn't using Doom's time platform supposed to prevent alternate timelines from occurring?

Why are there two Wolverines?

Hab

Doom's platforms basically makes alt timelines (Marvel Two-in-One #50 being the clearest example).

What Doom's platforms don't normally do is stay in the alt timeline when your travel back to the 'present'.

Sue & Wolverine should have returned to same decimated Earth that they left - changing nothing in thier reality (except that she's now a murderer).

Dooms platform can be used to visit the timeline they created (ala M2in1's sequel in Marvel Two in One #100).

And all this is something Sue knows (or did before Marvel retconned time travel to fit this story).

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby habitual » Thu May 16, 2013 12:14 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:To be honest, Hab, I've had a huge problem with the very concept of All-New X-Men for that very reason -- I don't understand how the Young X-Men can be in the present, interact with all the things they have, then go back to the past at some point because that's what the timeline demands.

I'm not a big fan of time travel stories, as I've said before. But I haven't complained about it as much because I'm trying to let these creators tell the story in the way they've plotted it out.


I don't have an issue with it in that instance because McCoy is the one that engineered the event.

It just seems weird to me to point out that Fury had one of Doom's platforms and what's occurring is specifically what it's designed to prevent.

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Punchy » Thu May 16, 2013 12:15 pm

Time Travel is made up, it shouldn't have rules, writers should just do what's best for their particular story, like in Doctor Who.

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby habitual » Thu May 16, 2013 12:21 pm

Punchy wrote:Time Travel is made up, it shouldn't have rules, writers should just do what's best for their particular story, like in Doctor Who.


Unless it's addressed it's a pretty huge plot hole And also in story's like these the rules when it comes to time travel and alternate timelines are pretty much what the story is about.

Not a mistake I've really seen Bendis make before.

Also get off the pipe.

Hab

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby habitual » Thu May 16, 2013 12:27 pm

Amoebas wrote:Doom's platforms basically makes alt timelines (Marvel Two-in-One #50 being the clearest example).

What Doom's platforms don't normally do is stay in the alt timeline when your travel back to the 'present'.

Sue & Wolverine should have returned to same decimated Earth that they left - changing nothing in thier reality (except that she's now a murderer).

Dooms platform can be used to visit the timeline they created (ala M2in1's sequel in Marvel Two in One #100).

And all this is something Sue knows (or did before Marvel retconned time travel to fit this story).


She's a conspirator, not a murderer.

Hab

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