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Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Johnny Smith » Thu May 16, 2013 1:13 pm

chap22 wrote:I will admit I do not stand with Blue on the overall quality of this event. it certainly has its weaknesses...i feel the first few issues were TOO decompressed, i do lament the fact that the titular villain has not shown up through 8 issues in a 10-issue mini, i feel that after dragging the first 4-5 issues along so slowly Bendis is now throwing too much too fast and it's really affecting the narrative for me,


We've basically got two stories crammed together to make one story. That's why you're getting narrative whiplash. :)

1. Bendis & Hitch plotted out one story - issues one through part of five (or however much Hitch had already drawn) + a conclusion that will be different than the one we'll get. This story is all about atmosphere, so decompression is appropriate.

2. Marvel Editorial schedules the event for 2013. Bendis & Marvel Editorial re-plot the end of the story (half of issue five through ten) to stretch it out to ten issues (Angela added to the end at some point). Bendis throws in the alternate timeline/Exiles like stuff we've seen since issue six. This story is all about meeting new versions of Marvel's favorite characters, so it's going to be fast paced if you don't allocate enough issues for it.

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Amoebas » Thu May 16, 2013 1:31 pm

habitual wrote:
She's a conspirator, not a murderer.

Hab

In a court of law, Sue Richards may not have pulled the trigger but she would still be culpable of murder. By abetting Wolverine (a known murderer in his own right) she demonstrated a reckless disregard for life which resulted in Hank Pym's death.

She couldn't even try self-defense, as the person, whose murder she condoned, contributed to and allowed to happen, was utterly innocent.

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby habitual » Thu May 16, 2013 1:36 pm

Amoebas wrote:In a court of law, Sue Richards may not have pulled the trigger but she would still be culpable of murder. By abetting Wolverine (a known murderer in his own right) she demonstrated a reckless disregard for life which resulted in Hank Pym's death.

She couldn't even try self-defense, as the person, whose murder she condoned, contributed to and allowed to happen, was utterly innocent.


Yeah, it's called conspiracy to commit murder, i.e. she's a conspirator, not the murderer.

Hab

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Grayson » Thu May 16, 2013 2:53 pm

Honestly, the second half of the Age of Ultron has been infinitely better than the first half but it still isn't very good. I agree that this new timeline is interesting and I would have loved to see more of it. Unfortunately, this is a 10 issue miniseries and the first 4 issues were wasted on material that wasn't very interesting and easily could have been condensed into 1 issue. Almost all of the character deaths in this series have fallen flat so far because there is no real emotional connection behind them. They absolutely do not matter. The only death that has mattered in this series is the death of Hank Pym but both his death and the effects that his death have on the timeline are going to be cut short because the rest of the event has been so decompressed, that we now only have 2 issues left.

Also, I have said it before but I will say it again; IF the heroes remember any of these events, especially Wolverine, then they need to apologize to Cyclops and cut him some fucking slack.
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu May 16, 2013 3:08 pm

I'll tell you why I hate this event, and almost every big Marvel event recently: because the characters act like fucking dicks.

Iron Man, huge Dick in Civil War. Captain America and all the avengers, huge dicks in Avengers vs. X-Men. Cyclops, terrorist, villain. In AoU, you have Red Hulk murdering Taskmaster for basically no reason. You have the heroes constantly fighting, usually over whether to employ some fascist idea for "the greater good," and most of the time, that is viewed as the "right" path and the heroes agree to it, even typically anti-fascism heroes like Captain America. Wolverine murdering Hank Pym, Sue Storm supporting it. Heroes wanting to leave other heroes to rot in captivity. It's ridiculous. In all the hooplah to make these HEROES VS HEROES events, they make all their characters unlikeable.

There's no camaraderie in the Marvel heroes, they all fuck each over or sell each other out or bran each other menaces to society that need to be put down at the drop of a hat.

And none of it is because of some natural story progression. It's all done to conform to the paradigm of the blockbuster event, which MUST have heroes vs. heroes and betrayals and simplistic attempts to show moral conflict.

On top of that, AoU has been the poster child for Bendis decompression, with the story moving super fucking slow for the first six issues. Arguably, issues 1-7 were all the first act. That leaves three issues for the second and third act. WTF?
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu May 16, 2013 3:16 pm

Iron Man: massive dick from Civil War
Captain America: massive dick from Avengers vs. X-Men
Thor: Kind of a dick in AvX, but just following Cap's lead
Cyclops: Branded mutant terrorist, twirls mustache after AvX
Wolverine: Dick in general, but the way the other characters look up to him for advice and morality makes him intolerable, this spans multiple events
Spider-Man: Now a villain

That's like your top six fucking characters there. Really? They're all dicks? To serve stories that, while selling a lot of comics, really weren't all that great to begin with?

More dicks:

Scarlet Witch - House of M
Quicksilver - Silent War
Probably a lot more I'm forgetting.

Are villains in the MU even relevant anymore? Ultron didn't even matter to AoU. Heroes in the MU have always beat the villains. Now the heroes are BEING the villains, pushing them out of their own jobs. You can't have an event now without a hero being the bad guy, or at least two heroes or groups of heroes being morally opposed to the other, U DECIDE who's the villain.

It's lame. Cheap, gimmicky, lazy, and played out.
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu May 16, 2013 3:22 pm

Iron Man and Captain America: "Alright Wolverine, we're heading out for a while. While we're gone, don't you dare go back in time and kill an Avenger!"

(avengers leave)

Wolverine: "Turn on the time machine, bub."

Rest of the heroes: "Oh that Wolverine! Such a scamp!"

Why does Wolverine get to act unilaterally and no one ever calls him on it?
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby GHERU » Thu May 16, 2013 3:32 pm

Hey, wolverine, remember how I tossed you our of a jet for trying to murder a teenage girl? I know you just suggested murdering an Avenger, but I'm going to trust you with this time machine to not do what you are the best at

:roll:

Tony Stark, the smartest man alive
Cap, master tactician and anti-murder

neither of these guys sees this coming

idiots

the art in 1-5, books written two years ago - looked slapped together in 5 minutes for a story that is (House of M * Falshpoint) - any reason to care

at least the Panther went out like a hero, tripping over his own feet.

EVERY decision made since issue #1 page #1 has been stupid, out of character, and pathetic. AU has made me hope all the hero die. They deserve it
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu May 16, 2013 3:34 pm

Ultron was right!
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Johnny Smith » Thu May 16, 2013 4:25 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:Ultron was right!


I wonder what Ultron thinks about being left out of his own event :roll:

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Johnny Smith » Thu May 16, 2013 4:29 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:On top of that, AoU has been the poster child for Bendis decompression, with the story moving super fucking slow for the first six issues. Arguably, issues 1-7 were all the first act. That leaves three issues for the second and third act. WTF?


unfair criticism. :lol:

The Great One is writing comics, not a Shakespearean play :roll:

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby habitual » Thu May 16, 2013 4:30 pm

Maybe we'll get ninjas.

Bendis loves ninjas.

Hab

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby jeremy » Thu May 16, 2013 4:37 pm

Yea, I think Jude pretty much has the jist of the problem with these marvel events.

I'd say they just go to whatever these writer summits are, decide what sort of event they want to throw together, concerned more with the end result than the story and then just shoehorn whatever actions they need to from whatever characters they need to in order to make it work. This is why these events treat the characters so poorly. The sad thing is some good writers are involved with these things and they should feel ashamed to put this crap out.

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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby GHERU » Thu May 16, 2013 4:47 pm

hey, check it out, someone went back in time to stop a tragedy and came back to find
AoA?
House of M?
Flashpoint?

nope
the all new Age of Ultron!
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Re: Age of Ultron #8: Yep, I still like it (Spoilers)

Postby Amoebas » Thu May 16, 2013 4:48 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:Iron Man: massive dick from Civil War
Captain America: massive dick from Avengers vs. X-Men
Thor: Kind of a dick in AvX, but just following Cap's lead
Cyclops: Branded mutant terrorist, twirls mustache after AvX
Wolverine: Dick in general, but the way the other characters look up to him for advice and morality makes him intolerable, this spans multiple events
Spider-Man: Now a villain

That's like your top six fucking characters there. Really? They're all dicks? To serve stories that, while selling a lot of comics, really weren't all that great to begin with?

More dicks:

Scarlet Witch - House of M
Quicksilver - Silent War
Probably a lot more I'm forgetting.


Reed Richards - built Clor who killed Black Goliath = dick
Ben Grimm - moved to France rather than take a stand for what he believed in = dick
Wonder Man - went on a tirade and attacked his best friends because - uhm? - was there ever really a good reason? = dick
Sub-Mariner - just because he's always been a dick = dick
Black Widow - as an Avenger, she just murdered 5 people in cold blood (just last week) = dick
Thor - punches kids = dick

It's like the only Marvel character ever shown to regret their bad decisions was Hank Pym - and he's dead now.

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