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by Chris » Sun May 19, 2013 5:31 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:
If one could be lost... could not more?

Plus, how could it be the Time War did not also change all timelines?

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand

Looks to me like he was "The Time War" Doctor.. seems like he's wearing both the 8th Doctor's clothes, and the 9th Doctor's leather jacket. So I can only assume whatever bad he did, was something during the Time War, that possibly led to its end and getting time-locked.

Which, as I said earlier, is why it'd be pretty insanely disappointing if Eccleston didn't return for this given the subject matter.

by The Old Doctor » Sun May 19, 2013 5:35 pm

Chris wrote:
Sure, more could. But the Valeyard, specifically, was a known version of the Doctor and it was a future version.

I think if you get into the Time War changing shit all willy nilly, you start getting into lazy storytelling, because then you can just use the Time War as an excuse for literally anything you want.

Also, the Valeyard was evil. Hurt's Doctor, from what little we know, wasn't so much evil as he did what was necessary "for peace" or whatever it is that he said. But he crossed the line that the Doctor never crosses, thus, he didn't act in "the name of the Doctor"...


Here is a spoilery pic from the 50th set, showing Hurt in-costume...

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand

Looks to me like he was "The Time War" Doctor.. seems like he's wearing both the 8th Doctor's clothes, and the 9th Doctor's leather jacket. So I can only assume whatever bad he did, was something during the Time War, that possibly led to its end and getting time-locked.

Which, as I said earlier, is why it'd be pretty insanely disappointing if Eccleston didn't return for this given the subject matter.

by Chris » Sun May 19, 2013 5:43 pm

by David Bird » Sun May 19, 2013 5:43 pm

by David Bird » Sun May 19, 2013 5:45 pm

Chris wrote:I will say that if it's true that Hurt is the 8.5th Doctor, and he came between McGann and Eccleston... that really puts the first season of the show into a whole new context.

We knew that Eccleston's Doctor was the one dealing with the fallout of the Time War from the get-go, and we knew he saw and did some shit, because his Doctor was always kind of sad.

But if this is true, then he'd be the one trying to figure out how to be "The Doctor" again after doing some horrible shit to end the war. Puts a new light on it all, really.

by Chris » Sun May 19, 2013 5:50 pm

by Chris » Sun May 19, 2013 5:51 pm

David Bird wrote:
I'm not sure why this is blacked out. There aren't any spoilers.

by fieldy snuts » Sun May 19, 2013 5:58 pm

by David Bird » Sun May 19, 2013 6:07 pm

by Chris » Sun May 19, 2013 6:21 pm

by Chris » Sun May 19, 2013 6:27 pm

The Other was intended to be part of the backstory of the television series during the Seventh Doctor's tenure and part of script editor Andrew Cartmel's intention now known to fans as the "Cartmel Masterplan" to restore some mystery to the character of the Doctor.[1] Cartmel felt that years of explanations about the Doctor's origins and the Time Lords had removed much of the mystery and strength of the character of the Doctor, and decided to make the Doctor "once again more than a mere chump of a Time Lord".[1] Elements of this effort were liberally scattered through Seasons 25 and 26 of the series, and occasionally included hints about the Doctor's past; for example, in Silver Nemesis, when Ace and the Doctor discuss the creation of validium, the Doctor mentions that it was created by Omega and Rassilon. Ace asks, "And...?" and the Doctor is silent. Cartmel has written that this was meant to indicate that the Doctor was "more than a Time Lord":

The Other was first explicitly mentioned in the novelisation of Remembrance of the Daleks by Ben Aaronovitch as a shadowy figure in Time Lord history, one of the founding Triumvirate of Time Lord society after the overthrow of the cult of the Pythia that had, until then, dominated Gallifrey.[2] The other two members of the Triumvirate were Rassilon and Omega.
Of the three, the Other's origins are the most obscure, with the circumstances of his birth and appearance being a mystery. Like Rassilon, various contradictory legends surround the Other, some hinting that he had powers surpassing that of Rassilon or Omega, and some even suggesting that he was not born on the Time Lords' home world of Gallifrey. Even his name is lost to time, which is why he is simply referred to as "the Other". A minor Gallifreyan festival known as Otherstide is celebrated yearly in his honour.[citation needed] This festival falls on the same days as the Doctor's name day.

When the Pythia was overthrown, she laid a final curse on Gallifrey that made the population sterile. To ensure the continuation of their race, Rassilon created the Looms, machines that would "weave" new Gallifreyans out of extant genetic material.

Omega apparently died creating the black hole which provided the raw power needed for time travel, turning the Gallifreyans into Lords of Time. (Some accounts suggest that Rassilon misled Omega into believing he would survive this mission.) Rassilon and the Other were left to pick up the pieces, with Rassilon harnessing the nucleus of the black hole to create the Eye of Harmony and becoming virtual dictator of Time Lord civilisation. As Rassilon's rule became more oppressive, the Other knew that his own days were numbered.

The Other first ensured that his granddaughter Susan (the last child to be naturally born on Gallifrey) was safe, sending her to the spaceport to get off the planet. Then, in a last gesture of defiance against Rassilon's rule, he committed suicide by throwing himself into the Looms, mixing his genetic material into the banks.

Eons passed, and the Looms became integrated into the great Houses of Gallifrey. Eventually, a new Cousin was born to the House of Lungbarrow, who would become known as the Doctor. Disenchanted with Time Lord society, the Doctor stole a TARDIS, intending to explore the universe. However, inside he discovered that the Hand of Omega, the stellar manipulator Omega had used to create the Eye of Harmony, had followed him on board, somehow recognising inside him one of its creators. Although time travel into Gallifrey's past was strictly forbidden, the Hand overrode the locks that prevented the TARDIS from doing so and took the Doctor back to the Old Time.

There, a year after the Other had vanished into the Looms, the Doctor found Susan wandering the streets of the city — she had never made it to the spaceport. Like the Hand, although the Doctor did not look anything like the Other, Susan recognised that there was a connection, and when she addressed him as "Grandfather", both of them knew that it was somehow right. The implication was that the Other had been genetically reincarnated as the Doctor, although how much of the Other is in the Doctor and how much he remembers of his past life, if at all, is unclear. Susan and the Doctor then left in the TARDIS to travel through time and space.

by fieldy snuts » Sun May 19, 2013 6:28 pm

by PDH » Sun May 19, 2013 7:00 pm

Punchy wrote:
The 'power of love' is more interesting and easier to understand than some complex sci-fic mcguffin. It's more important to get across the emotions of the characters than to be clever for me.

by The Old Doctor » Sun May 19, 2013 7:00 pm

Chris wrote:I will say that if it's true that Hurt is the 8.5th Doctor, and he came between McGann and Eccleston... that really puts the first season of the show into a whole new context.

We knew that Eccleston's Doctor was the one dealing with the fallout of the Time War from the get-go, and we knew he saw and did some shit, because his Doctor was always kind of sad.

But if this is true, then he'd be the one trying to figure out how to be "The Doctor" again after doing some horrible shit to end the war. Puts a new light on it all, really.

by The Old Doctor » Sun May 19, 2013 7:01 pm

David Bird wrote:Here's a thought. Perhaps the new Doctor represents a regeneration from a timeline that was overwritten at some point. Timelines are being re-written all the time--no pun intended--so why not have a unwritten, or rewritten, Doctor? Hurt could be the original 9th regeneration and Eccleston a second 9th regeneration.