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Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoilers)

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guitarsmashley

Regular-Sized Poster

Postby guitarsmashley » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:08 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
HA! Your Bendis Rage kept you from seeing Steve Rogers get smoked! :-D :-D


I don't have Bendis rage either though. I have shitty story rage. I don't like a lot of what he writes but All New X-Men has been a must read book for me every month.
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ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:12 pm

guitarsmashley wrote:
I don't have Bendis rage either though. I have shitty story rage. I don't like a lot of what he writes but All New X-Men has been a must read book for me every month.


No worries; I'm just teasing. At least there was a sequence in the book that you can see that you felt Bendis didn't address; while I realize that doesn't change much, at least you can see he did include it.
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ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:34 pm

dairydead wrote:
I don't think so. I think its pretty valid


Wow. So I'm being unreasonable because I actually like a series that I'm actually paying for and reading thoroughly, attempting to understand what the writer is trying to accomplish because, again, I'm actually paying for it and reading it? That's the definition of unreasonable now? Seriously?

Huh. Well, to each their own -- I like the series, don't really have to apologize for it. I've explained my points of view, as best I can.
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:21 pm

Sorry ESJ - this book was crap.

At the end of last issue, Stark was all 'I'M GOING TO KILL YOU, YOU LYING MOTHERFUCKER!' and then the start of issue he's completely forgotten about it and it's all 'pardon me, but would you please listen to this dying man ramble on about the ramifications of time travel?'

Hank Pym in 1967 saying "The Hell" :roll: et al the circle speak

In Avengers #41 (the issue with the gutters where this story takes place) Hank calls the Avengers for help because he only thinks his lab might be where some trouble is. Yet here, Bendis has Hank attacked and wounded and Hank just sits there :smt017

Hank calls Sue Richards, Sue Storm :roll: (to make it worse, Sue is called Richards in the page one recap and then called Storm on the last (waste of a) page who's who icons.

So Hank has to forget planting the virus in Ultron? Okay, let's just hope that he doesn't remember it when he uses his Electronic Memory Bank machine to recall the entire incident in Avengers #58. We wouldn't want anything to be invalidated.
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:22 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Ha! Again, that's your right. Personally, I think any story where Ultron loses and no hero gets killed, ever since he got the Adamantium body, has been every bit as ridiculous.

You mean... "Ridiculously GREAT"!
ImageImageImageImageImage
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:32 pm

Amoebas wrote:You mean... "Ridiculously GREAT"!
ImageImageImageImageImage


Image

And:

Image

:oops:
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ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:36 pm

Amoebas wrote:Sorry ESJ - this book was crap.

At the end of last issue, Stark was all 'I'M GOING TO KILL YOU, YOU LYING MOTHERFUCKER!' and then the start of issue he's completely forgotten about it and it's all 'pardon me, but would you please listen to this dying man ramble on about the ramifications of time travel?'

Hank Pym in 1967 saying "The Hell" :roll: et al the circle speak

In Avengers #41 (the issue with the gutters where this story takes place) Hank calls the Avengers for help because he only thinks his lab might be where some trouble is. Yet here, Bendis has Hank attacked and wounded and Hank just sits there :smt017

Hank calls Sue Richards, Sue Storm :roll: (to make it worse, Sue is called Richards in the page one recap and then called Storm on the last (waste of a) page who's who icons.

So Hank has to forget planting the virus in Ultron? Okay, let's just hope that he doesn't remember it when he uses his Electronic Memory Bank machine to recall the entire incident in Avengers #58. We wouldn't want anything to be invalidated.


1. He found it hard to believe, but he was believing what Xavier and Frost told him before the carrier was attacked -- why is it hard to believe, after he sees Wolverine kill some of Morgan Le Fey's creatures, that he wouldn't believe the story then?

2./3. WOW. Are you really saying that Pym referring to Susan Richards and Sue Storm jarred you that much?

4. We'll have to see how Bendis handles the implanting of the virus -- the mechanism. Again, if he doesn't explain it, then all criticism is deserved. But let's see what he does in the final issue -- before, the complaint was that Sue Richards was a murderer. Now she's not -- and time travel stories are always that way. The argument of "oh, but we saw her do it" doesn't hold up -- nobody holds Alex Summers accountable for being one of Apocalypse's top operatives in Age of Apocalypse, correct?
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ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:49 pm

From Avengers #162 on, every single time Ultron didn't kill multiple Avengers was a ridiculous outcome. I'm sorry, but that's just the truth.

I'm as fond of the Golden and Silver Ages as anyone -- I truly am. I was just re-reading the Iron Hand/Seven Soldiers of Victory stories from the JLA last week.

But for the life of me, I just don't understand this level of criticism. I just don't.

Tom Breevort, from the 'Rama: The trick with Ultron, too, is realizing that he really isn't the robot. Ultron is the code that runs the robot. Once you reconcile that, all the various individual flying drones that we see in the first five or six issues, all the little float-y head things that we see in #6, all of these things, in a sense, are extensions of Ultron in the same sort of way that the Internet goes infinitely in every direction, and it's on 10 million computers at the same time, all doing something slightly different.

I don't see how everyone doesn't get that. That's what makes Ultron so dangerous. You can't punch your way out of this. Ultron is a concept!

Also from Breevort: What he was interested in seeing is, in this sort of post-humanity, post-apocalyptic, burnt-down world, what characters survive, and what characters are able to thrive in these conditions, and what happens when you push these characters all the way to, and past, the breaking point? That's something that's interesting that we don't ordinarily do.

What did people expect to see? The Assault on Avengers Mansion and New York? You know what happened? Ultron robots killed a lot of superheroes. Did people expect to see Wolverine and Hawkeye playing poker in an air-conditioned Ready Room, waiting for Nick Fury and Dum Dum Dugan and Reed Richards and Tony Stark to come in and tell them, "Hey, guys. Got it. The invincible robot hasn't really won, or killed anything. We've got that unbeatable fucker right where we want him. Have another beer, you Lovable Old Killer Canuck. Because we talked about some spy shit and put some math equations on a whiteboard."

I
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:51 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
1. He found it hard to believe, but he was believing what Xavier and Frost told him before the carrier was attacked -- why is it hard to believe, after he sees Wolverine kill some of Morgan Le Fey's creatures, that he wouldn't believe the story then?

2./3. WOW. Are you really saying that Pym referring to Susan Richards and Sue Storm jarred you that much?

4. We'll have to see how Bendis handles the implanting of the virus -- the mechanism. Again, if he doesn't explain it, then all criticism is deserved. But let's see what he does in the final issue -- before, the complaint was that Sue Richards was a murderer. Now she's not -- and time travel stories are always that way. The argument of "oh, but we saw her do it" doesn't hold up -- nobody holds Alex Summers accountable for being one of Apocalypse's top operatives in Age of Apocalypse, correct?
I'd have to give a damn about the X-books in order to answer that.

And yes - it bugs me that people can't grasp that Sue Storm became Sue Richards over 48 years ago! :lol:

And yes again - Sue allowed Hank to be murdered. Because of this issue, in the MU she's now off the hook, but to the reader - we still saw her do it. That makes her guilty.
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:52 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:4. We'll have to see how Bendis handles the implanting of the virus -- the mechanism. Again, if he doesn't explain it, then all criticism is deserved. But let's see what he does in the final issue


Can he implant the virus now? Ultron is already active and aware. Is this going to create one of those paradoxes where Ultron goes evil because Hank Pym experiments on him after he had already become self-aware so that he could implant the virus that will eventually disable him when he does go evil in the future? :smt102

-- before, the complaint was that Sue Richards was a murderer. Now she's not -- and time travel stories are always that way. The argument of "oh, but we saw her do it" doesn't hold up -- nobody holds Alex Summers accountable for being one of Apocalypse's top operatives in Age of Apocalypse, correct?


Those are completely different scenarios though. Nobody holds Alex Summers accountable for what he did during the Age of Apocalypse because the Alex Summers from the Age of Apocalypse is technically an alternate reality version of the character. The way that the Age of Ultron has been setup, the Wolverine and Sue Storm who went back into the past to murder Hank Pym are the real Wolverine and Sue Richards. So any actions that they took/attempted to take are still part of their characters. When the Age of Ultron ends, what should happen is that Wolverine will have went back in time to kill Hank Pym against the wishes of the rest of the Marvel Heroes, while Sue Richards will still have been conflicted over her decision to allow him to do it.
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:53 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:From Avengers #162 on, every single time Ultron didn't kill multiple Avengers was a ridiculous outcome. I'm sorry, but that's just the truth.

No, that's an opinion.

Truth is - this book/series was crap. :P
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:55 pm

Grayson wrote: The way that the Age of Ultron has been setup, the Wolverine and Sue Storm who went back into the past to murder Hank Pym are the real Wolverine and Sue Richards. So any actions that they took/attempted to take are still part of their characters. When the Age of Ultron ends, what should happen is that Wolverine will have went back in time to kill Hank Pym against the wishes of the rest of the Marvel Heroes, while Sue Richards will still have been conflicted over her decision to allow him to do it.
I'm certain this will be quickly forgotten (just like all of Wolverine's other murders and maimings).
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ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:03 pm

Amoebas wrote:I'd have to give a damn about the X-books in order to answer that.

And yes - it bugs me that people can't grasp that Sue Storm became Sue Richards over 48 years ago! :lol:

And yes again - Sue allowed Hank to be murdered. Because of this issue, in the MU she's now off the hook, but to the reader - we still saw her do it. That makes her guilty.


What is with you and Smashley and other critics of this series? Frost and Xavier didn't tell Tony Starkguard anything in an X-Men book -- that was just last issue! Two weeks ago!

How is Sue Richards a murderer? She's no more a murderer due to time travel than Barry Allen is murderer of BILLIONS OF BEINGS due to Flashpoint!
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:17 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:How is Sue Richards a murderer?


She willingly allowed Wolverine to murder Hank Pym the first time. Wolverine may have prevented her from doing it the second time around but the fact remains that if events were allowed to play themselves out without Wolverine's interference, she would have allowed him to do it again. According the Marvel and Bendis this is not some alternate reality version of Susan, this it the regular, everyday version of Susan that we read about each month.

She's no more a murderer due to time travel than Barry Allen is murderer of BILLIONS OF BEINGS due to Flashpoint!


I may be enjoying the current Flash series but believe me, I will never forget that as far as DC continuity is concerned, Barry Allen is responsible for the current state of the DCnU. Biggest villain in DCU history. :smt011
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Draco x

Fagorstorm

Postby Draco x » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:36 pm

Well to be fair AOU is much better than Fear Itself which is completely forgettable.

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