The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Grayson** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:43 pm

draco x wrote:Well to be fair AOU is much better than Fear Itself which is completely forgettable.

It makes me sick that I am about to say this but sadly, I would disagree with you.

by **guitarsmashley** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:56 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Wow. So I'm being unreasonable because I actually like a series that I'm actually paying for and reading thoroughly, attempting to understand what the writer is trying to accomplish because, again, I'm actually paying for it and reading it? That's the definition of unreasonable now? Seriously?

Huh. Well, to each their own -- I like the series, don't really have to apologize for it. I've explained my points of view, as best I can.

I am so glad I'm not paying for this. If I were paying for it I would be furious.

by **chap22** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:59 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:From Avengers #162 on, every single time Ultron didn't kill multiple Avengers was a ridiculous outcome. I'm sorry, but that's just the truth.

Hold up a second... I have seen you, repeat YOU, complain long and loudly on numerous occasions in the past about DC (and I think Marel as well)'s shoddy work at portraying their iconic, long-operating, well-trained and experienced superheroes as competent. If you really want me to, I'll track down one of your numerous posts about how the Joker should be taking a dirt nap to refresh your memory.

Yet now you're complaining that Marvel has been portraying its premier team, it's "Earth's Mightiest Heroes", as TOO competent forthe last 35+ years, and therefore not realistic? Can we really have that argument both ways in this context?

by **MikeinLA** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:02 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Ha! Again, that's your right. Personally, I think any story where Ultron loses and no hero gets killed, ever since he got the Adamantium body, has been every bit as ridiculous.

I'm not sure why Ultron should be considered so big a threat that he can't be beaten without some hero dying. The good guys are almost always facing foes more powerful than they are. Kang controls an intergalactic empire from the future and can travel through time. Ultron's a paperweight compared to him.

by **Amoebas** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:19 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
What is with you and Smashley and other critics of this series? Frost and Xavier didn't tell Tony Starkguard anything in an X-Men book -- that was just last issue! Two weeks ago!

What does this have to do with my answering you on your Age of Apocalypse question?

by **guitarsmashley** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:45 pm

Amoebas wrote:What does this have to do with my answering you on your Age of Apocalypse question?

For me it's just that it's a shit story.

by **S.F. Jude Terror** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:02 pm

Yeah, I have no problem with the concept of this story. It's problem is that it's got every single Bendisism that anyone has ever complained about turned up to 11. On the other hand, though, as I explained in my review of Uncanny X-Men #6, this full body cleansing is what allows Bendis to do such a good job on that book, so in that respect, I can accept this book's shittiness.

by **Like Master J** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:57 am

Ultron is such a shitty character

by **Juan Cena** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:10 am

Jubilee wrote:Ultron is such a shitty character

You should dig up Avengers #66-68 or Avengers #161-162. Those were awesome Ultron stories, especially the later.

by **ElijahSnowFan** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:36 am

chap22 wrote:Hold up a second... I have seen you, repeat YOU, complain long and loudly on numerous occasions in the past about DC (and I think Marel as well)'s shoddy work at portraying their iconic, long-operating, well-trained and experienced superheroes as competent. If you really want me to, I'll track down one of your numerous posts about how the Joker should be taking a dirt nap to refresh your memory.

Yet now you're complaining that Marvel has been portraying its premier team, it's "Earth's Mightiest Heroes", as TOO competent forthe last 35+ years, and therefore not realistic? Can we really have that argument both ways in this context?

I do advocate those things, and it's why I am so adamant about a few things about this series.

Just look at Ultron over the years, in this series. Just put this series aside, and look at what he has done over the years.

He's a self-aware robot who is brilliant, doesn't just have cognitive function but actually the ability to think, plot, plan and build.

This sentient robot who can't be killed, in an indestructible body, who wants to kill the Avengers and all humanity, built the Vision and Jocasta. On ANYBODY'S list of most powerful Avengers, the Vision is easily, what, Top 5 or 6? Depending on who you ask, maybe even Top 2 or 3?

OK. Not only have we established that Ultron HIMSELF can't be killed, he's capable of creating things that are more powerful than 99 percent of the Avengers who serve! While yes, the Vision and Jocasta betrayed him -- and I'm not saying that those particular beings could be replicated, because they were unique -- but why not just build more robots without compassion, without compunction, without mercy?

Oh, wait. That's what he did, WHEN HE KILLED THE WORLD.

That's my point in this series: You never had to see Ultron. Because he's a robot who has, numerous times in the past, tried to kill the Avengers AND HASN'T EVEN BEEN THERE.

There's a difference between hero competence and Ridiculously Overpowered Villain in the First Place Being Dumbed Down So Hawkeye Doesn't Die Immediately When Facing the Indestructible Robot Who Has No Mercy, Who Has the Demonstrated Ability to Build More Robots Without Mercy Who Are More Powerful Than All of You!

by **ElijahSnowFan** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:39 am

MikeinLA wrote:

I'm not sure why Ultron should be considered so big a threat that he can't be beaten without some hero dying. The good guys are almost always facing foes more powerful than they are. Kang controls an intergalactic empire from the future and can travel through time. Ultron's a paperweight compared to him.

See my response to Chap. Ultron's the most ridiculously overpowered villain in the Marvel Universe. Because the only way to kill him? Was the way Wolverine and Susan Richards did it -- you had to go back in time before the damn thing was created.

by **ElijahSnowFan** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:41 am

Amoebas wrote:What does this have to do with my answering you on your Age of Apocalypse question?

My mistake -- I thought you were saying that you missed Frost and Xavier telling Tony that Time-Displaced Wolverine and Sue Richards were who they said they were, like Smashley had missed the sequence of the heroes getting slaughtered en route to Ultron City.

by **ElijahSnowFan** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:43 am

Jubilee wrote:Ultron is such a shitty character

This. Ridiculously one-note character. I give Bendis credit for even attempting to do something with such a one-note character.

Ultron is so ridiculously overpowered, he's not even remotely interesting. If I were a writer, I'd just put the character away and not even pretend like I'd use him. I remember seeing something where it was 15 years between the Signalman's first and second appearance in comics, and it had something to do with how ridiculous the character was due to the era he was created in.

That's how ridiculous I think Ultron is. I think if Marvel never told another Ultron story, it'd be just fine. Because the character, as portrayed, is simply ridiculous.

by **MikeinLA** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:00 am

Juan Cena wrote:

You should dig up Avengers #66-68 or Avengers #161-162. Those were awesome Ultron stories, especially the later.

Ultron Unlimited as well.

by **guitarsmashley** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:38 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
This. Ridiculously one-note character. I give Bendis credit for even attempting to do something with such a one-note character.

Ok, this is where I will have to say you're really off your rocker because Ultron has been an unseen, unused set piece and used in name only. I mean really we've seen any kind of Ultrons roving through cities and bringing she hulk to Vision. For a couple panels in issue 6 and the end of this issue. I would argue Bendis hasn't done anything with Ultron.