Advertisement

Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argument

Discuss the latest comic book news and front page articles, read or post your own reviews of comics, and talk about anything comic book related. Threads from the two subforums below will also show up here. News Stand topics can also be read and posted in from The Asylum.

Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Logged in users see WAY LESS ADS, so why not register? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*

*Membership spots not really limited!

LobsterJ
User avatar
Great Scott!!!
 
Posts: 4865
Likes: 3 posts
Liked in: 56 posts
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 4:28 pm


Re: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argument

Postby LobsterJ » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:46 pm

That is a really interestiZZZZZZZ

Advertisement

S.F. Jude Terror
User avatar
OMCTO
 
Posts: 76411
Likes: 488 posts
Liked in: 767 posts
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:44 pm
Location: Up Your Ass
Title: Webmaster Supreme
Formerly: Dr. Jude Terror


Re: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argument

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:04 pm

Anonymous, you make several good points, but I think it's a generalization to say that the situations you describe are the only context in which the term friend zone is used. I'm sure that does happen, and it's reprehensible, but I'm not sure I agree that the term is inherently misogynistic as opposed to being used by some people in that way.

That being said, maybe I just don't know enough about the etymology of the word.

Are you aware of any research on the etymology of "friend zone" that you could share (not being sarcastic)?
Image
I LOVE BLUD BLOOD! - Rob Liefeld

Keb
User avatar
<( ' . ' )>
 
Posts: 39995
Likes: 181 posts
Liked in: 323 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:14 pm
Location: Right near de mountains, boy!
Title: Wastespacer
Formerly: Cocaine Biceps


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby Keb » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:05 pm

FBtron wrote:It's sad that so many men react with such hostility toward issues involving women's equality. There is too often an immediate dismissal of an issue at hand without even once considering the other parties' feelings. With this particular issue, it isn't just one woman, nor is it just an Internet issue for "ridiculous" feminists but an issue that many women and men are strongly speaking out against. This is not something that was created by women to bash men about but an issue created by insecure guys out there to refer to their "condition" of "entitlement" to a woman's body.

These men, whether teenagers or young adults, are indeed males who have befriended a woman specifically thinking that because he is a "nice guy" she'll put out and are angered when she doesn't. The term "friend zoned" is also used when a guy has been "let down" by a female friend and his male friend is putting down the girl who did it - instead of simply saying something positive, such as, "that bites, man, I feel for you, but you'll find someone else - besides, she may be right... You guys are tight, you wouldn't want to chance wrecking it," it goes like, "that bitch just friend zoned you. You're not going to let it slide are you?" Or, " you were even there for her when her sister died! She *hugged* you! She sent out the signals! She sooo friend zoned you!"

In general, the term is being used by dejected males who then proceed to very vocally bash the object of affection. Websites are being created by these males who gather their friends or strangers who agree with them to "call out" and put down these women for not having sex with them. It isn't just a crush or falling in love and then they're hurt, it's specifically about these guys believing they're entitled to the woman's body because they were nice to her and "understanding."

Because these guys "allowed" the women their shoulder to cry on, or to do something else "emasculating," such as telling the female her hair looked nice, they *expect* that the female will f--- them. Once the male has been rejected, they've been "friend zoned", which is as almost as bad, if not worse, than being murdered.

...

As for me, growing up as a *legitimate* "nice guy" I was disappointed and hurt at times to be rejected by someone I had romantic feelings toward but I got over it. If there was anger, it faded, and I never thought I should literally create havoc for the object of my feelings, and I certainly never felt I was owed anything. In addition, I look back on the times where "it would wreck the friendship" as times I'm now grateful for, as indeed it would have wrecked things - a deep emotional relationship with someone can be rewarding without romantic love or sex. It is disturbing then that young men are now creating such relationships as opportunities to be "owed" a woman's body and that there are those who believe this way of thought is not something to be concerned about.

Would you like a little cheese with that self-righteous misinformed crock of horse shit?

The idea of the "friend zone" stems from rejection, yes, but it does NOT solely apply solely to men who feel sexually entitled to a woman because they befriend her.

Part of it stems from the emotional turmoil created by the rejection knowing that you're only so good and that you'll essentially never stand chance.with someone you feel strongly for. It's an added insult that person won't actually reciprocate romantic feelings but would like you to continue to provide the support for them as though the hurt is not really a thing that you should be allowed to feel.

"I don't feel the same way about you but I think we should still be friends." Is a very ignorant thing to say to a person. It shows that the rejecting party is actually quite selfish, wanting that person to keep up their level of emotional commitment to the relationship since they don't want to lose their support system.

The problem actually stems from people not knowing how to treat each other fairly or considerately. The best way to deal with being "friend zoned" is to walk away from that person and move on. It's true, but people will actually guilt you for walking away from the friendship. Even worse, some people hold out hope that the person will turn around and decide to date a friend because they are led to believe that some kind of relationship is better than no relationship at all.

It's not a misogyny thing despite what people want to turn it into. It's a miseducation issue. It's because we are learning right and wrong from movies, books and music that is over-idealized or skewed and applying it to everyday life. We're not learning life by living it, we're learning it by watching it, reading it and listening to it.

Gender equality doesn't mean everyone is treated the same. Gender equality means everyone is understood and treated accordingly. People need to be okay with others being hurt by rejection. It's part of life. There's no reason why anyone should torture another person.

A couple years ago, I met a girl, we became friends, I started liking her and she called me an awful person for it. Probably was the best thing that ever happened to me.

guitargod694
User avatar
Post Whore
 
Posts: 1027
Likes: 87 posts
Liked in: 76 posts
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:22 pm
Title: Total Spaceship Guy


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby guitargod694 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:21 pm

FBtron wrote:It's sad that so many men react with such hostility toward issues involving women's equality. There is too often an immediate dismissal of an issue at hand without even once considering the other parties' feelings. With this particular issue, it isn't just one woman, nor is it just an Internet issue for "ridiculous" feminists but an issue that many women and men are strongly speaking out against. This is not something that was created by women to bash men about but an issue created by insecure guys out there to refer to their "condition" of "entitlement" to a woman's body.

These men, whether teenagers or young adults, are indeed males who have befriended a woman specifically thinking that because he is a "nice guy" she'll put out and are angered when she doesn't. The term "friend zoned" is also used when a guy has been "let down" by a female friend and his male friend is putting down the girl who did it - instead of simply saying something positive, such as, "that bites, man, I feel for you, but you'll find someone else - besides, she may be right... You guys are tight, you wouldn't want to chance wrecking it," it goes like, "that bitch just friend zoned you. You're not going to let it slide are you?" Or, " you were even there for her when her sister died! She *hugged* you! She sent out the signals! She sooo friend zoned you!"

In general, the term is being used by dejected males who then proceed to very vocally bash the object of affection. Websites are being created by these males who gather their friends or strangers who agree with them to "call out" and put down these women for not having sex with them. It isn't just a crush or falling in love and then they're hurt, it's specifically about these guys believing they're entitled to the woman's body because they were nice to her and "understanding."

Because these guys "allowed" the women their shoulder to cry on, or to do something else "emasculating," such as telling the female her hair looked nice, they *expect* that the female will f--- them. Once the male has been rejected, they've been "friend zoned", which is as almost as bad, if not worse, than being murdered.

Because of today's technology what might have been an isolated incident has spread to a "movement" by similar minded guys. What many men and women are trying to do to combat this is to educate that this type of thinking is wrong, and that a woman is not property. The reason why it is so misogynistic is because it is directly focused on women. Perhaps there might be a male who is gay who uses this now growing terminology, but the origin is directed to the heterosexual female by the heterosexual male.

In the comic referenced, CLARK KENT said this to Jimmy. Even as sexist as Superman has been written in the past, he would never ever have suggested that a guy was owed sex by a woman.

In the series of tweets, which aren't all shown in the article above, a reader, who happened to be female, expressed disdain to Daniel about this term. She was rudely dismissed. Someone stepped in and was trying to assist in conflict-resolution by asking Mr. Daniel to listen to this woman and to emphasize the misogyny involved in the term, but throughout it, both concerned parties were rudely dismissed before being blocked. (By the way, the sarcastic comments about Daniel's writing ability were only shared on the Tumblr devoted to Tony Daniel and not toward Daniel himself. )

What's also troubling about this incident is that Daniel is representing DC. Even "outside" the company, he is still very much representing the company where he works. This type of unprofessionalism is consistent throughout DC, which says much about the company and those who are quick to defend the offending parties.

Even if Daniel was incited to react in a hostile matter, being angered by certain comments, he shouldn't have acted on that. He could have tried to see what was wrong with the term, or at least why their was strong emotion against it, or at most, simply have answered with lip service, a "thank you for your concern; it's something to think about," if not just simply, "I disagree and I will not discuss it further; thank you for your understanding."

Whether or not you agree that this is a serious issue that is at least worthy of further thought and pondering, or acknowledge and accept that there are many hurt by this terminology, Daniel acted in an unprofessional manner and the continued unprofessionalism of some at DC should not be tolerated... Especially when readers and fans are paying customers of their product.

As for me, growing up as a *legitimate* "nice guy" I was disappointed and hurt at times to be rejected by someone I had romantic feelings toward but I got over it. If there was anger, it faded, and I never thought I should literally create havoc for the object of my feelings, and I certainly never felt I was owed anything. In addition, I look back on the times where "it would wreck the friendship" as times I'm now grateful for, as indeed it would have wrecked things - a deep emotional relationship with someone can be rewarding without romantic love or sex. It is disturbing then that young men are now creating such relationships as opportunities to be "owed" a woman's body and that there are those who believe this way of thought is not something to be concerned about.


While all of the behavior you describe here is genuinely horrible behavior... it has fuck-all to do with the term "friendzone". Sure, some guys only do nice things for girls because they want to fuck them. And then that doesn't work out and they are pissed off about it. And yeah, maybe they use the term 'friendzone' to express their anger over the lack of sexual gratification they unjustly felt entitled to receive.

But that doesn't mean that every time someone says they were interested in a girl and she 'friendzoned' him or 'put him in the friendzone' that they think of that girl (or all girls) as sex objects that have unjustly denied them the blowjob they deserve for listening to her problems. It just means she doesn't feel the same way about him and it's disappointing. He then has to decide if he wants to continue seeing that person in a platonic fashion, or stop seeing them all together.

Going after terms like that doesn't solve the problem. It won't magically make these men you speak of less misogynistic assholes if we all agree to stop saying 'friendzone'. It'll just make it take longer to explain a situation that happens all the time to men and women.
-Bill-

The Old Doctor
User avatar
A Damn Cuddly Beast
 
Posts: 67176
Likes: 997 posts
Liked in: 778 posts
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Toronto, ONT, Canadah
Formerly: /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby The Old Doctor » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:27 pm

guitargod694 wrote:
While all of the behavior you describe here is genuinely horrible behavior... it has fuck-all to do with the term "friendzone". Sure, some guys only do nice things for girls because they want to fuck them. And then that doesn't work out and they are pissed off about it. And yeah, maybe they use the term 'friendzone' to express their anger over the lack of sexual gratification they unjustly felt entitled to receive.

But that doesn't mean that every time someone says they were interested in a girl and she 'friendzoned' him or 'put him in the friendzone' that they think of that girl (or all girls) as sex objects that have unjustly denied them the blowjob they deserve for listening to her problems. It just means she doesn't feel the same way about him and it's disappointing. He then has to decide if he wants to continue seeing that person in a platonic fashion, or stop seeing them all together.

Going after terms like that doesn't solve the problem. It won't magically make these men you speak of less misogynistic assholes if we all agree to stop saying 'friendzone'. It'll just make it take longer to explain a situation that happens all the time to men and women.


:shock:
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

Image
IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

Mr. Log
User avatar
rubber spoon
 
Posts: 6249
Likes: 127 posts
Liked in: 144 posts
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:43 am
Title: HRUNK!
Formerly: Log-Man


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby Mr. Log » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:54 pm

Keb wrote:Would you like a little cheese with that self-righteous misinformed crock of horse shit?

:smt005 :smt005 :smt005

I cannot properly express how much I love this line :-D

guitargod694
User avatar
Post Whore
 
Posts: 1027
Likes: 87 posts
Liked in: 76 posts
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:22 pm
Title: Total Spaceship Guy


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby guitargod694 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:59 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:
:shock:


In case it isn't clear... that isn't my opinion, but rather the hypothetical view of the hypothetical guy who uses the term "friendzone" in the sexist or misogynistic way the person I quoted was referring to.
-Bill-

The Old Doctor
User avatar
A Damn Cuddly Beast
 
Posts: 67176
Likes: 997 posts
Liked in: 778 posts
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Toronto, ONT, Canadah
Formerly: /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby The Old Doctor » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:02 pm

guitargod694 wrote:
In case it isn't clear... that isn't my opinion, but rather the hypothetical view of the hypothetical guy who uses the term "friendzone" in the sexist or misogynistic way the person I quoted was referring to.


Still... :shock:

If that were the rule...
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

Image
IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

Keb
User avatar
<( ' . ' )>
 
Posts: 39995
Likes: 181 posts
Liked in: 323 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:14 pm
Location: Right near de mountains, boy!
Title: Wastespacer
Formerly: Cocaine Biceps



guitargod694
User avatar
Post Whore
 
Posts: 1027
Likes: 87 posts
Liked in: 76 posts
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:22 pm
Title: Total Spaceship Guy


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby guitargod694 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:04 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:
Still... :shock:

If that were the rule...


I know...
Apparently, as men, we all think it is. Or at least should be.
Which is why we so callously use terms like "friendzone'd" when our interest in a female is not requited.
-Bill-

The Old Doctor
User avatar
A Damn Cuddly Beast
 
Posts: 67176
Likes: 997 posts
Liked in: 778 posts
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Toronto, ONT, Canadah
Formerly: /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby The Old Doctor » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:10 pm

guitargod694 wrote:
I know...
Apparently, as men, we all think it is. Or at least should be.
Which is why we so callously use terms like "friendzone'd" when our interest in a female is not requited.


I guess it's a generational thing, as I never saw it that way. You were either just friends or not.
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

Image
IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

guitargod694
User avatar
Post Whore
 
Posts: 1027
Likes: 87 posts
Liked in: 76 posts
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:22 pm
Title: Total Spaceship Guy


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby guitargod694 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:19 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:
I guess it's a generational thing, as I never saw it that way. You were either just friends or not.


Me neither. It was just a way of saying "she isn't into you".

In fact, if anything, I see it as more of a pejorative to the person who has been "friendzone'd".
These guys that think they are "nice guys" and they'll just be around and be supportive and sooner or later the girl will realize that he's the one that's always been there for her and she was in love with him the whole time and just too blinded to see it.

When in reality, he should just be open and direct about his feelings and intentions. If she shares that interest, great. If not... bummer.

And I've seen that scenario over and over from girls and guys.
-Bill-

Keb
User avatar
<( ' . ' )>
 
Posts: 39995
Likes: 181 posts
Liked in: 323 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:14 pm
Location: Right near de mountains, boy!
Title: Wastespacer
Formerly: Cocaine Biceps


Re: RE: Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argu

Postby Keb » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:44 pm

guitargod694 wrote:
Me neither. It was just a way of saying "she isn't into you".

In fact, if anything, I see it as more of a pejorative to the person who has been "friendzone'd".
These guys that think they are "nice guys" and they'll just be around and be supportive and sooner or later the girl will realize that he's the one that's always been there for her and she was in love with him the whole time and just too blinded to see it.

When in reality, he should just be open and direct about his feelings and intentions. If she shares that interest, great. If not... bummer.

And I've seen that scenario over and over from girls and guys.

That's what I'm saying!

oogy
User avatar
Outhouse Drafter
 
Posts: 8063
Likes: 371 posts
Liked in: 119 posts
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:39 pm
Formerly: oogyboy, Elwood P Dowd, OH USER #535


Re: Tony Daniel's Friend Zoning Controversy

Postby oogy » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:47 pm

dairydead wrote:I asked my friend, who is studying "Women's Studies" in college, and she said this is really honestly a huge topic among feminists right now.

:smt011

Feminists are dumb.
Image

Stephen Colbert wrote:Everybody knows I don't see race. People tell me I'm white and I believe them because I get pretty good service at the Cracker Barrel.

Ron Swanson wrote:You may have thought you heard me say I wanted a lot of bacon and eggs, but what I said was: Give me all the bacon and eggs you have.

oogy
User avatar
Outhouse Drafter
 
Posts: 8063
Likes: 371 posts
Liked in: 119 posts
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:39 pm
Formerly: oogyboy, Elwood P Dowd, OH USER #535


Re: Tony Daniel's Friend Zoning Controversy

Postby oogy » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:48 pm

alaska1125 wrote:
It's a totally ginned up fake topic to generate...what? Righteous anger?


Lewis Black wrote:"That’s something you’re gonna…worry about now? You need a hobby! ‘Cause on the list of things we have to worry about [this topic] is on page six after ‘Are we eating too much garlic as a people?’”


Lord Simian wrote: :groucho:

:smt023
Image

Stephen Colbert wrote:Everybody knows I don't see race. People tell me I'm white and I believe them because I get pretty good service at the Cracker Barrel.

Ron Swanson wrote:You may have thought you heard me say I wanted a lot of bacon and eggs, but what I said was: Give me all the bacon and eggs you have.

leave a comment with facebook

PreviousNext

Return to The News Stand



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TerminalNY83, Yahoo [Bot] and 41 guests

Advertisement