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Mark Waid is MAAADDD About Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

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dairydead

Humuhumunukunukuapuaa

Postby dairydead » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:54 pm

LobsterJ wrote:I can't believe anybody had any hope this was going to be good. The director made one moderately entertaining movie years ago and everything since has been garbage, and the one comic adaptation he did before was terrible and showed he had no grasp of the source material.

300 was solid, watchmen was great, and owls of gahoole was a nice surprise. Man of Steel is also solid. I don't know what you're talking about
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LobsterJ

Expert Post Whore

Postby LobsterJ » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:27 pm

dairydead wrote: watchmen was great,


I don't believe we can find much common ground in regards to our opinions on the films of Zack Snyder.
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Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:17 pm

Watchmen was unwatchable. What a tedious piece of crap.

That Owl movie was okay, but I feel like Pixar and even Dreamworks have raised the bar far above what it offered.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:21 pm

Watchmen was appalling.
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fieldy snuts

Rain Partier

Postby fieldy snuts » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:17 pm

Ok while I'm all for a more grounded take and can overlook glossing over the collateral damage involved as the city is basically levelled......

Superman outright killing Zod by snapping his neck is just wrong. Waid is right about that.
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:29 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:Superman outright killing Zod by snapping his neck is just wrong. Waid is right about that.


But he didn't just outright kill him. Superman only had one real advantage over Zod, which was the fact that he already knew what abilities Earth's sun gave him. The longer the battle went on, the more knowledge Zod gained about his new abilities and he started to use them against Clark. It was only a matter of time before if came down to one Superman vs. the other and then it would have been up to who was the more skilled fighter. Zod, clearly had the advantage in that department. Clark had him in a position where he temporarily had the upper hand but Zod was overpowering him and he put him in a no-win situation. Zod let Clark know that he wasn't going to stop, ever, until one of them were dead and he was endangering the lives of civilians. So he left Clark with a choice; prolong the fight, allow more civilians to die (particularly the family that was in immediate danger), and hope to find a way to contain Zod or end the threat once and for all. It wasn't an easy decision for him, his choice weighed heavily on him, and the scene immediately following the choice really sold Clark's inner turmoil over it. It wasn't clean or perfect but it sold one of the most crucial plots of the movie for me, which was Clark's choice between Krypton or Earth.
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fieldy snuts

Rain Partier

Postby fieldy snuts » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:51 pm

and there was no other way to write that scene? it's like the writers said "ok we need superman to kill him at the films climax so lets get it there."....and it wasn't like he snapped when he saw them in danger, he instinctively went for the neck snap of all things...like wtf? not even nolan's batman character was that outright brutal.

as much as i don't care for superman, it was an epically stupid way to solidify the films attempt to be "dark".
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Tintin Quarantino

Rain Partier

Postby Tintin Quarantino » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:58 pm

Grayson wrote:So he left Clark with a choice; prolong the fight, allow more civilians to die (particularly the family that was in immediate danger), and hope to find a way to contain Zod or end the threat once and for all.


Well, that S on his chest doesn't stand for Superman! :P
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:09 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:and there was no other way to write that scene? it's like the writers said "ok we need superman to kill him at the films climax so lets get it there."....and it wasn't like he snapped when he saw them in danger, he instinctively went for the neck snap of all things...like wtf? not even nolan's batman character was that outright brutal.

as much as i don't care for superman, it was an epically stupid way to solidify the films attempt to be "dark".


It's not like he saw the family in danger, said "fuck it," and immediately snapped his neck. Clark hesitated, he was clearly struggling with Zod, not to mention the fact that he had been getting his ass handed to him for the better part of the day by other Kryptonians. He may have had a small measure of control in the situation but it was clear that Zod was slowly overpowering him. Zod was going to gain the upper hand. Zod was going to kill that family. Remember, this isn't a trained Superman who knows how to handle himself in a fight. This is Clark Kent, a guy who has been taught by his adopted parents to hold back and restrain himself his entire life. Were there other options available? Probably. Does that mean that Clark should have automatically known what to do? Not really. He did what he had to do to survive and save the people in immediate danger. Doesn't make him any less of a hero and considering the magnitude of the threat, it doesn't really taint his image as the big blue boyscout.
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fieldy snuts

Rain Partier

Postby fieldy snuts » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:27 pm

a neck snap is not a spur of the moment desperation move, it's a cold blooded way to kill someone usually used in movies by professional killers.

so an untrained superman with limited experience in stuff like this just happened to have a fatality in his moveset. that's what makes it even more stupid...it's not like he lost control, he instinctively heard a voice in his head that said "finish him" and went for a fatality.
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Herald

Regular-Sized Poster

Postby Herald » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:35 pm

Grayson wrote: Remember, this isn't a trained Superman who knows how to handle himself in a fight. This is Clark Kent, a guy who has been taught by his adopted parents to hold back and restrain himself his entire life.


Remember, comic book Superman never needed outside training to know how to respect the sanctity of life. This is Clark Kent, a guy who has been taught by his adopted parents that there's always another option besides murder.

Were there other options available? Probably.


Yeah, like breaking arms and legs instead of a neck.

Doesn't make him any less of a hero and considering the magnitude of the threat, it doesn't really taint his image as the big blue boyscout.


Sorry, but I'm afraid it does. This is no more the real Superman than the thing that the DCnU is presenting. It's just another warped, Darker and Edgier version of him.
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BubbaKanoosh

2009 Most Valuable Poster

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:49 pm

Just saw it... I enjoyed it. I would've edited out a few Jor-El parts though.


[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
As for the killing part, I think Waid was over acting. I found nothing wrong with it, and his reaction after to me showed that. It was like when Wonder Woman killed Maxwell Lord, which I know people find an issue with but it made sense. He would keep killing people if he wasn't killed himself...
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BubbaKanoosh

2009 Most Valuable Poster

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:52 pm

Herald wrote:
Remember, comic book Superman never needed outside training to know how to respect the sanctity of life. This is Clark Kent, a guy who has been taught by his adopted parents that there's always another option besides murder.



Yeah, like breaking arms and legs instead of a neck.



Sorry, but I'm afraid it does. This is no more the real Superman than the thing that the DCnU is presenting. It's just another warped, Darker and Edgier version of him.


Have you seen the movie? How Waid describes it is not good... you are judging a scene written by a biased writer..

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
The killing was justified, and he only had an instant to think. He was kill or watch a family be killed.
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BubbaKanoosh

2009 Most Valuable Poster

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:56 pm

It's not like Superman went out and decided to do what he did...

It was an instant moment... I hate darker and gritty stuff, but that moment from Superman didn't feel "dark and gritty"
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Herald

Regular-Sized Poster

Postby Herald » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:00 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:
Have you seen the movie? How Waid describes it is not good... you are judging a scene written by a biased writer..


And you're NOT biased, right??

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