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Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

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Mr. Log
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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby Mr. Log » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:41 pm

I wonder what the Bass would say, since he knew we hated Marvel.

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby Punchy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:47 am

I posted two positive front page articles about DC only last week, one was about the new Vertigo announcements, the other was Albuquerque taking over as Animal Man artist.

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby SuperginraiX » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:58 am

It has been a while since I posted regular front page articles. I was actually a member of the news group back when it was just Jude and me copy/ pasting the press releases that Marvel and Image (and sometimes Dark Horse and Oni) sent out to us. We'd also venture over to DC's blog to grab the press releases that they wouldn't just friggin' email to us.

And then I got a full time job that wouldn't allow me to post copy/ paste press releases. Jude and Blue wondered what the heck they would do and they came up with genius. Instead of doing the whole copy/ paste thing and losing all interest in anything comic booky, they decided to read a press release or an article from another site and then snark the hell out of it. It didn't matter which company it was. They would be the comic book version of the Daily Show and the Onion.

And it's been awesome. Seriously. I read some of these articles and tears come out of my eyes, I'm laughing so hard. I sometimes get to read the stuff left on the cutting room floor and I sometimes get to tell Jude he's going too far. So I still pretend I'm involved. :D Around this new news initiative, they've gathered a couple other great writers to help with the snark. And, of course, we still get some non-snarky articles. I've only attempted one satirical article and it wasn't very good. :smt102

DC gives us a lot of ammunition but I think they really put themselves in our sites when they did that whole blacklisting thing. I mean, that forced us into stepping up our game. So... MAYBE the Outhouse rips on DC more than Marvel... MAYBE... but I see a LOT of jibes headed in Marvel's direction because both companies do insanely stupid things that just NEED to be mocked and ridiculed. They also both produce some comics that are ACTUALLY good and have reader that genuinely enjoy them.

I liken this "You have a ________ favoritism" thing to something that happens to every fan publication ever. I remember reading in my EGM magazines back in the day. Depending on the reader, EGM loved Nintendo or Sega or Sony or maybe they hated them all. It's natural for fans to feel like an oppressed minority and that their point of view isn't being properly expressed by the publication of their choice. I don't know WHY that's natural but it happens so often that it MUST be.

To any readers who feel like they are avoiding this place because posters or staff will mock your reading choices, I am sorry you feel this way. Maybe you should read better comics. :P I mean... I hope this isn't actually the case. I know this site has a few Heralds (probably on both sides of the issue) but Herald actually makes me want to love DC even though I really don't. He makes me want to support everything Dan Didio does. (Full cards on the table: I no longer read DC OR Marvel books on a regular basis-- I only read Transformers comics)



TL;DR synopsis: This is all my fault and I am truly sorry. It is also your fault.
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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby nietoperz » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:15 am

Meanwhile, it seems Dan Didio is claiming on Twitter that Kot was always supposed to be temporary, but Kot himself is disagreeing (very respectfully) and wants to have a private conversation with the boss man.

Another sterling PR job, DC! Kudos.

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby fieldy snuts » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:18 am

nietoperz wrote:Meanwhile, it seems Dan Didio is claiming on Twitter that Kot was always supposed to be temporary, but Kot himself is disagreeing (very respectfully) and wants to have a private conversation with the boss man.

Another sterling PR job, DC! Kudos.


We shouldn't know this.

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby jeremy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:30 pm

oogy wrote:I'm going to again agree with IVCNUB4 100%

I don't care that the company gets a ton of shit. Some of it is rightfully so. But don't call the fans "morons" for liking the books.



I take issue with the above quote. Is it so hard to believe that people are enjoying the titles? I know there are completists who will buy anything for their collection, but IMO most people buying these books do so because they like what is going on in the book. I genuinely enjoy all of the DC books that I currently get, which is about 20-25 titles a month. If I don't like a book, I drop it and try something else, usually from DC.

IVCNUB4 pm'd me saying that he's been told by several posters that they hesitate posting about the comics they like for fear of being dogpiled on. I know that I don't post much in the DC threads for this reason.


I take issue with you taking issue!! There is no dogpiling going on that I see. In fact, I see DC fanboys being much more aggressive than people are toward them. I'd be curious to see the "several posters PMing him" but regardless, there are plenty of good reviews of DC books (some that I've written) and I don't see people bitching at me about enjoying them. I don't scour the forum constantly b/c I'm usually working on front page stuff, but I'm not seeing some sort of giant movement of anti-dc posts where people gang up on anyone that enjoys DC.

As for people buying comics, everyone likes different stuff, but I'm sure there is not only a few completionists out there buying stuff, but also people that just buy things because they like the character and hope it will get better. But it is quite clear to see the stuff we are talking DC to task for isn't pulled out of thin air, they are legitimate issues, no matter how many books you like.

In the end, let's be clear about something. The people the most mad at DC are probably quite often DC readers. I'm not a big DC reader, I read a few books they put out and could honestly care less about most of the stuff I see for hasdcdone... Personally, I want all comics to be better, I want the industry to be better, I don't care if DC, Marvel, or one of the smaller pubs is leading the way. But this crap about how this person is a DC fan b/c they shut up and buy books and this person isn't b/c they bitch needs to stop. Too many people think someone writing an article taking DC to task for something is anti-DC, that's the problem.

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby jeremy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:34 pm

oogy wrote:I paraphrased his PM, and "dogpiling" may have been the wrong choice of words. It's been a long day, I'm tired and cranky.

The exact words were "A lot of the DC readers here have said in the past that they are hesitant to chime in on some threads because of the potential snarky retaliation."

And again, I have no problem with the shit they get for their missteps.


Going through thread in order, just saw clarification of "dogpiling".

But I don't know what to say about people scared someone will disagree with them on the internet. Welcome to the world, people aren't always going to love what you love. Frankly, I'd rather comment on a real discussion than with a circle jerk of people that just all agree with me. The fact that IvCn and you having an opposing view that you stand up for makes more sense to me than everyone falling into line.

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:40 pm

For me, when I see a piece of comic news out there, I immediately think, "how can I make fun of this?" It's not a personal pissing match with DC or anyone else. It's an extension of the atmosphere that's always existed here on The Outhouse (and any place where friends shoot the shit) - it's ragging on stuff, even stuff you like, to make each other laugh.

DC's Dilbertesque corporate behavior is an easy target. It's their own fault, really. I don't think I make fun of the actual content of the books too much (though I'm sure there are cases where I do). When the Nu52 launched, I started reading more DC books than before, and it's only because some of them have been canceled and I couldn't handle all the crossovers in the Bat Books that I am now reading less.

I was a big fan of their attempt to do genres other than superhero, even though most (all?) of those books are canceled.
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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby jeremy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:54 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:
So it's all my fault that there are no positive DC threads on the Front Page ? :lol: How about we look at the number of writers that have Front Page posting rights and have all gradually stopped posting anything at all on a regular basis ?
Even when I have taken the time to write up something positive, within the first 4replys many of them get shit on by certain other writers here and one Mod in particular that rarely has anything positive to say and it's clear he's just bitch-posting. We all know and understand that "regular" posters and haters are gonna chime in but it really says a lot about the atmosphere here that your own Staff does this on a regular basis. Not to mention how fucking frustrating it is to have to compete with that Stupid Counter. If you guys want more DC-positive stuff on the Front Page make it an environment that supports that.

Have I dumped on Marvel in the past ? Yes. But for a while now I have also tried to not shit on someone else's article just for the sake of the same endless bitching and moaning about the same gripes. If I do chime in I try and make a relevant point or ask for someone else's more-educated opinion.

In case you forgot we had a rather lengthy thread on this very topic a while back in which several of the DC readers stated there also that they have given up trying to start a pro-thread because inevitably it always get derailed and becomes nothing but the same old bitch fest. Page 2 is a good place to start.


I have written positive reviews of DC books (not like I churn out a ton of comic reviews) I also wrote up the nightwing story "straight", not that I spun it for good or bad, just presented the facts and my thoughts and let people share theirs and I didn't build it into a hasdc... article. Angela and I do normal, straight interviews and articles on conventions, but that is DC's fault that that news isn't getting created now (we got shafted by them at Wondercon long before the issue with Zechs popped up and we knew something was up) We still talk to several people that work with DC on good terms (and they are fans of what we do actually). Granted, I don't do a ton of the comic news, but I also promoted the heck out of Man of Steel (which bit me in the ass b/c I hated that movie). I have also tried out more DC books since the new52 relaunch than I have books from all other companies combined (it's not my fault if they didn't win me over).

I remember blue writing an article about the new52 initiative that was very positive (back when they were still doing well with it numbers wise) that even got linked from other sites. We also cover the show Arrow with a very popular series after each episode.

Some of us have no problem writing something good about DC (or anyone else, or bad about anyone else either - in fact, I don't think many of us that work on the front page daily really do). Personally, I call shit the way I see it and I feel like the others do as well. If you have a different opinion, then yes, it is up to you to put it out there, you can make an article about how such and such is great in response to a hasdc... article instead of just commenting on it and show the other side of the story. Are you waiting for someone that doesn't feel that way to write it up? Because I would think it would come off best from someone that truly believed that.

Now, as for "environment that supports it", what do you want? You want us to control what happens in comments? We don't do that in our articles, why would positive DC articles get special treatment? Who cares if someone shits on it or disagrees, have you not seen some of the crazy responses we get on articles all the time from people on articles? You have all these people contacting you about pro DC comments, well, tell them to comment in your articles and show they agree. And you don't have to compete with the counter, like I said, use it to your advantage, write up a counter point if it applies, publish it and link it in the comments of the main article or something. The site gets a lot of DC related traffic now, it would be a better time to take advantage of it than if the counter never happened because I assure you more people will read your article now than before.

But some of you guys just need to accept the fact that things aren't being run great at DC right now and there is just more to bitch about than compliment lately. Hopefully we can retire the counter one day, but that's up to DC in the end.

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby jeremy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:07 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:For me, when I see a piece of comic news out there, I immediately think, "how can I make fun of this?" It's not a personal pissing match with DC or anyone else. It's an extension of the atmosphere that's always existed here on The Outhouse (and any place where friends shoot the shit) - it's ragging on stuff, even stuff you like, to make each other laugh.

DC's Dilbertesque corporate behavior is an easy target. It's their own fault, really. I don't think I make fun of the actual content of the books too much (though I'm sure there are cases where I do). When the Nu52 launched, I started reading more DC books than before, and it's only because some of them have been canceled and I couldn't handle all the crossovers in the Bat Books that I am now reading less.

I was a big fan of their attempt to do genres other than superhero, even though most (all?) of those books are canceled.



Jude speaks the truth here.

He constantly just tries to figure out the best angle to make something funny.

The gozilla/legendary article, I tweeted the image out a day before the article thinking, "eh, there's no story here really" then jude comes up with this whole graffiti thing and writes a whole story about a picture. A picture that every website is running just to have you click on the story and see one image, yet he creates something entertaining in addition. You may not always like the humor, but you don't get that at other sites that just post the same press releases or the same picture, etc etc.

I mean, I'm guilty of it, I post that fluff all the time, like the Cap 2 poster yesterday. It won't get a ton of traffic, but I felt it should be up since EVERY geek site posted it. But if there is some way to take it and make an entertaining article out of it, something people want to read, that might make some people laugh, then they will come for that and not because we just posted the same picture, or the same preview, or the same press release on EVERY SINGLE COMIC/GEEK SITE out there.

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby The Old Doctor » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:18 pm

This last page has been very interesting. Almost like it belonged in the staff writer's forum.

But honestly, I have to ask, does anyone else feel that Dan Didio and crew are just "pissing up the wall" now?

I certainly get that feeling. I love comic book history and DC has an amazing one. But this is one hell of a chapter in that tome. "The Didio Era". Makes the eras of the 60s and 70s look better and better all the time.

I also like to think that some where... Gary Groth hates this place and all in it greater then any other. Because he never had the quality to lutz on comics as this place does. :lol:
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

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IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby The Old Doctor » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:20 pm

jeremy wrote:

Jude speaks the truth here.

He constantly just tries to figure out the best angle to make something funny.

The gozilla/legendary article, I tweeted the image out a day before the article thinking, "eh, there's no story here really" then jude comes up with this whole graffiti thing and writes a whole story about a picture. A picture that every website is running just to have you click on the story and see one image, yet he creates something entertaining in addition. You may not always like the humor, but you don't get that at other sites that just post the same press releases or the same picture, etc etc.

I mean, I'm guilty of it, I post that fluff all the time, like the Cap 2 poster yesterday. It won't get a ton of traffic, but I felt it should be up since EVERY geek site posted it. But if there is some way to take it and make an entertaining article out of it, something people want to read, that might make some people laugh, then they will come for that and not because we just posted the same picture, or the same preview, or the same press release on EVERY SINGLE COMIC/GEEK SITE out there.


You're making me wonder if Jude does his day job at all? :lol:

Jude is keeping an eye out for funny here.
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

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IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:33 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:
You're making me wonder if Jude does his day job at all? :lol:

Jude is keeping an eye out for funny here.


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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby TimH » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:07 pm

I'm a big fan of DC characters... and I love reading about the adventures of the lobotomized shells of my former favorites. I love how Cassie Sandsmark is now vaguely associated with Cambodian whatsits and an abusive boyfriend, while Supergirl is now vaguely associated with an abusive boyfriend. At least Black Canary shed her abusive boyfriend, but in exchange her new BFF turned out to be the BFF of Mr Freeze, the guy who keeps his dead wife in the fridge. And should Wonder Woman be taking meds for her schitzophrenia? Depending on which title you read, she either kills you if you cross her, or else she champions the weak and wins her enemies to her cause. At least her boyfriend isn't abusive (beyond punching her to kick off Trinity War).

Is it Wonder Woman's fault that DC is run by a bunch of corporate morons?
Is it Wonder Woman's fault that DC's most loyal fans have a man-crush on the Didiot and believe that Harras is just misunderstood? Or that Tony Daniel really is a gifted writer, just misunderstood (by the folks he badgers out of the company?) At least Scott Lobdell knows to keep his head down. And that's why he continues to survive to write the same story across 50 different titles (with tie-ins).*

* A tie-in is not to be confused with an event. A tie-in is "the exciting opportunity to leverage synergies across multiple superstar titles" whereas an event is something stupid that Marvel does which Harras would rather be dead than force upon his "valued readers in this shared journey we call the DCnU experience."

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Re: Ales Kot Permanently Off Suicide Squad

Postby Arion » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:28 pm

nietoperz wrote:Meanwhile, it seems Dan Didio is claiming on Twitter that Kot was always supposed to be temporary, but Kot himself is disagreeing (very respectfully) and wants to have a private conversation with the boss man.

Another sterling PR job, DC! Kudos.


DC knows a thing or two about bad PR.

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