The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **dairydead** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:35 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
It still counts as kiddie porn in many jurisdictions.

Doesn't mean its not stupid to pretend like drawings have an age of consent

by **chap22** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:38 pm

Victorian Squid wrote:That's a problem because she's in an outfit that, regardless of story context, is meant to appeal to the reader in a sexual way. In terms of semiotics, it's a clear signal of fetishism and sexuality, and to long-term X-Men readers also is meant to remind them of the Jean Grey Hellfire club story where she was clearly abused mentally and physically--and to me as a young reader, I was sure the undertones in the original story were that Mastermind was sexually abusing Jean as well. It was a serious story, but everyone in it were adults.

Since it's done so deliberately here there's really no question the writer meant to convey all that, and I think it's mildly disgusting to deliberately do that to your readers and place a 14 year old in that greater out-of-story context. If I were reading the book, I'd be pissed off at the writer.

Luckily, the book is garbage anyway and I'm not. By the way, how did a 14 year old manage to figure out how to put on a corset by herself anyway??

settle down there, Kent Horton, Jr. :roll:

that it's "meant to appeal to the reader in a sexual way" is your take. that's your baggage that you bring with yourself to the reading experience. another way to look at it is that it is teenagers, children really, doing what teenagers do. they want so badly to be seen as "grown-up" or "mature" that they do stupid things, dress in stupid ways, to make themselves look more grown-up than they are. they start piercing their ears, putting on makeup, wearing low-cut pants that show off their ass...and that's just teenage guys! God knows what teen girls are doing nowadays...

the whole point of this issue's narration, which is told from said poor victimized, sexualized, fetishized Idie, is that she is a child. one who is being told what to do, taught how to think, one w ho is "learning" so much new stuff from her new teachers...yet realizes on her own that what she's being taught is wrong. that what she's being told is wrong. and that despite all she's learning, she has so much left to learn. the short, simple scene with the outfit goes right along with that. it's stupid kids doing stupid things, Kilgore because he thinks it's what grownups do, Idie because she thinks it will help her manipulate Kilgore. one of them's right, one of them's not.

it's not meant to remind readers of Jean's "abusues" at the hands of Mastermind (such a they were...I tend to agree with Arion that those abusues were urely mental, as Wyngarde was a sniveling coward who was afraid to "wake the Phoenix" by actually touching jean in any way), any more than any issue featuring Selene is meant to do so. that's the Black Queen's outfit. it's just that here it's kids playing "dress-up" at being adults. Idie is in no way manipulated into putting it on, she isn't abused in any way...in fact after she willingly puts it on, she asks one question, then commences to beating the shit out of the bad guy who offered it to her. but then, you admit to not reading it, so I guess your completely erroneous assumption as to what's going on should be excused.

lastly, "placing a 14 year old in that greater out-of-story context"? :lol:

SHE'S A FICTIONAL CHARACTER! and as I said above, that point's moot anyway b/c the rest of your post is hogwash.

by **superfictious** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:41 pm

If only this issue had the artistic integrity of Lost Girls, there wouldn't be a debate.

by **dairydead** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:42 pm

chap22 wrote:
settle down there, Kent Horton, Jr.

that it's "meant to appeal to the reader in a sexual way" is your take. that's your baggage that you bring with yourself to the reading experience. another way to look at it is that it is teenagers, children really, doing what teenagers do. they want so badly to be seen as "grown-up" or "mature" that they do stupid things, dress in stupid ways, to make themselves look more grown-up than they are. they start piercing their ears, putting on makeup, wearing low-cut pants that show off their ass...and that's just teenage guys! God knows what teen girls are doing nowadays...

the whole point of this issue's narration, which is told from said poor victimized, sexualized, fetishized Idie, is that she is a child. one who is being told what to do, taught how to think, one w ho is "learning" so much new stuff from her new teachers...yet realizes on her own that what she's being taught is wrong. that what she's being told is wrong. and that despite all she's learning, she has so much left to learn. the short, simple scene with the outfit goes right along with that. it's stupid kids doing stupid things, Kilgore because he thinks it's what grownups do, Idie because she thinks it will help her manipulate Kilgore. one of them's right, one of them's not.

it's not meant to remind readers of Jean's "abusues" at the hands of Mastermind (such a they were...I tend to agree with Arion that those abusues were urely mental, as Wyngarde was a sniveling coward who was afraid to "wake the Phoenix" by actually touching jean in any way), any more than any issue featuring Selene is meant to do so. that's the Black Queen's outfit. it's just that here it's kids playing "dress-up" at being adults. Idie is in no way manipulated into putting it on, she isn't abused in any way...in fact after she willingly puts it on, she asks one question, then commences to beating the shit out of the bad guy who offered it to her. but then, you admit to not reading it, so I guess your completely erroneous assumption as to what's going on should be excused.

lastly, "placing a 14 year old in that greater out-of-story context"? SHE'S A FICTIONAL CHARACTER! and as I said above, that point's moot anyway b/c the rest of your post is hogwash.

by **Victorian Squid** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:49 pm

chap22 wrote:another way to look at it is that it is teenagers, children really, doing what teenagers do. they want so badly to be seen as "grown-up" or "mature" that they do stupid things, dress in stupid ways, to make themselves look more grown-up than they are. they start piercing their ears, putting on makeup, wearing low-cut pants that show off their ass...and that's just teenage guys! God knows what teen girls are doing nowadays...

Lol, so much hot air. How much time do you spend checking out teenage guys exactly?

Sounds like an awful lot! :shock:

by **S.F. Jude Terror** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:53 pm

Victorian Squid wrote:
Lol, so much hot air. How much time do you spend checking out teenage guys exactly?

Sounds like an awful lot!

Not a lot, they're too old for him.

by **chap22** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:53 pm

Victorian Squid wrote:
Lol, so much hot air. How much time do you spend checking out teenage guys exactly?

Sounds like an awful lot!

solid response. hot air, indeed.

by **chap22** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:54 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
Not a lot, they're too old for him.

go suck a chocodile, fattie.

by **Victorian Squid** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:04 pm

To Superficticious: I've never read Lost Girls, BTW. But the Great One did manage to turn handjobbing a fishstick into Shakespearean tragedy, so anything's possible..

by **S.F. Jude Terror** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:09 pm

chap22 wrote:go suck a chocodile, fattie.

That was uncalled for.

by **Juan Cena** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:16 pm

chap22 wrote:go suck a chocodile, fattie.

A chocodile fattie would put Jude in a total state of Nirvana.

by **chap22** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:16 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
That was uncalled for.

so's your face.

by **Juan Cena** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:17 pm

Victorian Squid wrote::lol:

To Superficticious: I've never read Lost Girls, BTW. But the Great One did manage to turn handjobbing a fishstick into Shakespearean tragedy, so anything's possible..

Wait...Bendis wrote a Kanye West comic? :shock: