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Quick, random question: Would you have death in comics?

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Herald

Regular-Sized Poster

Postby Herald » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:58 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:Thanks for the responses everybody -- I appreciate the thought you guys put into these.

I've always tried really hard to view comics as...I don't know. I read war comics when I was a kid, Sgt. Rock and other DC Comics, and I believe Charlton reprints of war comics from the 50s, where planes would get shot down and people would get shot and killed, or blown up in tanks.

I read G.I. Combat, with the Losers and the Haunted Tank, and the Unknown Soldier, where again, there was certainly death. Jonah Hex and Scalphunter and Bat Lash and Gravedigger, stories where deaths were plentiful.

And I think that the Dark Phoenix Saga, and Flash and Supergirl in COIE, are the Gold Standard for mortality in comic books. I would never have brought Barry Allen back. Supergirl isn't really that Supergirl, so I was fine with that. Jean Grey had contacted a cosmic entity, so I wasn't horrified by her return in X-Factor, back in the day.

And I do understand Hawk's point of view -- if Thanos never kills anyone, or Darkseid, what's the point? The bad guys have skills, have powers, are ruthless. They would win too, at some point, right?

But at the same time...I always remember one of my favorite comic books from my youth: Turok, Son of Stone. In it, he and Andar, his brother...those stories were timeless. They fought dinosaurs and lived and survived in the Lost Valley, and I never grew tired of those stories, though I acknowledge that there weren't nearly as many issues of that series as, say, Batman.

In Batman, I always chose to believe that he was just smarter, and the best fighter, and the best detective, and that he would train his pupils to be very nearly his equal.

I asked this question because Forever Evil is coming from DC, and I don't really know what to expect, but I guess I'd be surprised if all the good guys walk away. And we're firmly in an era where, again, death in comics isn't how I would do it, but it has long been established that "event deaths" and "shock value deaths" are how comics are done now.

Sometimes, though...I just wish we were back in the days where Batman was always smarter than the Joker, where Superman always got there in time. Where someone would've saved Ted Kord at the last second.

I know that isn't as fun for some people -- maybe many people. But I never felt bad about it, at all. I know the bad guys "should" win sometimes. Most times, though, I'm still simple enough where I wish those occasions were few and far between.


THIS.

I see little point in superheroes if they largely fail to save people, or worse, if they die so often and so horribly that they clearly can't even protect themselves.
User avatar

LoganRSA

FROGMAN

Postby LoganRSA » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:04 pm

If I were writing a title like Suicide Squad, there would be just enough death to maintain tension and keep people guessing. That's a premise that needs an appreciation of death. However, I wouldn't use it as a clearinghouse for morts.
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LobsterJ

Expert Post Whore

Postby LobsterJ » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:09 pm

Death is entirely meaningless in superhero comics. Think of how much better superhero comics would be if deaths were permanent.
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Tintin Quarantino

Rain Partier

Postby Tintin Quarantino » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:10 pm

Exactly. Permanent. All of it.
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Arion

Twenty-Something

Postby Arion » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:29 pm

Death has become too irrelevant in superhero comics. I don't want to see characters 'dying' on Monday to come back on Tuesday (or Wednesday).
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HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:00 pm

Death in comics works best when it's not a revolving door to the afterlife.



I wonder if anyone can name 10 fairly recognizable characters from the Big Two that have NOT died and come back?
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LoganRSA

FROGMAN

Postby LoganRSA » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:35 pm

HNutz wrote:Death in comics works best when it's not a revolving door to the afterlife.



I wonder if anyone can name 10 fairly recognizable characters from the Big Two that have NOT died and come back?


If you count massive extinctions, nobody. I don't generally count those, though, since they're just plot devices. Ten? Hmmm, tricky. Must ponder. :smt017
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:00 pm

Log-Man wrote:If I were writing a title like Suicide Squad, there would be just enough death to maintain tension and keep people guessing. That's a premise that needs an appreciation of death. However, I wouldn't use it as a clearinghouse for morts.

I'd agree with this.
Image :smt023
Image :smt011
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HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:07 pm

Log-Man wrote:
If you count massive extinctions, nobody. I don't generally count those, though, since they're just plot devices. Ten? Hmmm, tricky. Must ponder. :smt017


Yeah, if you want to get technical, half of the MU was killed during the Infinity Gauntlet affair.

But the X-Men were "killed" in Dallas and the Avengers were "killed" by Onslaught... do you count those, too?

Spider-Man died in "The Other", Peter Parker "died" a few issues back... Johnny Storm's the third member of the FF who's died and come back... Captain America & Batman both died and came back in REMARKABLY similar ways... Wolverine's "died" and "been brought" as a Horseman of the Apocalypse...

Without doing any real research... Banshee? Nope, nnever mind, isn't he back from the dead (sorta) now?

This IS tough...
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:24 pm

HNutz wrote:Death in comics works best when it's not a revolving door to the afterlife.



I wonder if anyone can name 10 fairly recognizable characters from the Big Two that have NOT died and come back?

I can get it started:

the Hulk (I don't think the end of McFarlane's art run/Ground Zero counts, he clearly wasn't dead)
Iceman
Cyclops
Atom (Ray Palmer...he's left, but never died)
Zatanna
Capt. Marvel (Billy Batson version)
Nightwing
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:40 pm

chap22 wrote:I can get it started:

the Hulk

Chappy - you should know better!
Image
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:49 pm

chap22 wrote:Nightwing
Technically correct - but 'Dick Grayson' has been killed before.
ImageImage
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HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:59 pm

I don't remember if Cyclops was actually dead or just believed dead after the whole Apocalypse possession thing...
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:31 pm

Amoebas wrote:Chappy - you should know better!
Image

Meh. Don't count that one either
User avatar

Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:52 pm

chap22 wrote:Meh. Don't count that one either

Deny it all you want - he was d.e.a.d.

As dead as the other time Hulk died...
Image

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