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DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Doomsday

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby sdsichero » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:51 pm

Grayson wrote:Image


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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby HNutz » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:53 pm

At least there's no skakeboard or belt full of pouches...

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Arion » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:52 pm

Ah, belt pouches... the smell of the 90s.

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Zechs » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:36 pm

Arion wrote:
DC wants their customers to be exhausted, that way they'll keep buying stuff out of habit...


Exactly. They want to crush and grind your soul into buying what THEY want you to buy. Not what you want to buy. You like a once B list character? TOO BAD. Have our favorite Barbara Gordon, Barry Allen, or Hal Jordan. How can you ruin a simple concept like Superman? CHALLENGE ACCEPTED, we put Scott Lobdell on ALL the books for a month and have him dictate the direction they go too. You think Teen Titans was bad then? Check it out now. It's fully 90s EXTREME MAN.
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Grayson » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:32 pm

HNutz wrote:At least there's no skakeboard or belt full of pouches...


Image

Look closely, there may not be any belt pouches but he does have shoe pouches!
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby SporkBot » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:39 pm

Arion wrote:DC wants their customers to be exhausted, that way they'll keep buying stuff out of habit...


Zechs wrote:Exactly. They want to crush and grind your soul into buying what THEY want you to buy. Not what you want to buy. You like a once B list character? TOO BAD. Have our favorite Barbara Gordon, Barry Allen, or Hal Jordan. How can you ruin a simple concept like Superman? CHALLENGE ACCEPTED, we put Scott Lobdell on ALL the books for a month and have him dictate the direction they go too. You think Teen Titans was bad then? Check it out now. It's fully 90s EXTREME MAN.


Well, that's one way to look at it. But couldn't it be argued that it's easier to just stop buying the bad and keep buying the good? I mean, I liked Geoff Johns' Justice League, I thought it was decent enough (though nowhere near as good as his Teen Titans run). But I dropped it to avoid this Trinity War crap. It was the fourth title I've dropped since the New52 started (where I'd started with fewer titles than pre-52). If you're tired of having pizza every night, eventually you're going to buy some ground beef and cook a freakin' burger.

Likely it's because they only care about the "young" market, remembering what stuff was like when they started in the business or stuff that really wowed the audience in the '90's, and are just expect that if they force history to repeat itself in terms of they gimmicks and weird designs, then history will also repeat financially. They never had a plan, they just said "forget these 'old' guys, let's pander to the horny teen boys and we'll be alllll-right!"

My fatigue comes, perhaps not so much from the very pedantic new Doomsday design, but rather that it is further evidence that DC is not waking up and realizing their mistakes. I just don't think they're smart enough to make the connection that if I drop Batgirl (which is a possibility), it'll be because of their ridiculous new Ventriloquist or the ludicrous fawning over Batwoman a few issues before. I'm betting they'll blame the "dreaded GIRL" writing the title or that the costumes weren't revealing enough. If I wrote them a well-worded, polite letter spelling this out to them, and they actually read it, I'd still be unconvinced they'd understand. "This letter makes several good points and has correct grammar and spelling. We should ignore this person because he's clearly not in our target demographic. Now, how can we put more pouches on Deathstroke's face?"

Now I need to go punch something.

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby syxxpakk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:50 pm

Zechs wrote:
Exactly. They want to crush and grind your soul into buying what THEY want you to buy. Not what you want to buy. You like a once B list character? TOO BAD. Have our favorite Barbara Gordon, Barry Allen, or Hal Jordan. How can you ruin a simple concept like Superman? CHALLENGE ACCEPTED, we put Scott Lobdell on ALL the books for a month and have him dictate the direction they go too. You think Teen Titans was bad then? Check it out now. It's fully 90s EXTREME MAN.


But what about the flip side of that, Zechs? What if I thought Spoiler and Cassandra Cain were stupid characters and am glad they're gone? What if I prefer Teen Titans now? What if Slobby on Superman is everything I ever wanted and I think he's made the character much better?
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Grayson » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:55 pm

syxxpakk wrote:But what about the flip side of that, Zechs? What if I thought Spoiler and Cassandra Cain were stupid characters and am glad they're gone? What if I prefer Teen Titans now? What if Slobby on Superman is everything I ever wanted and I think he's made the character much better?


This is why, while I don't really care for the DCnU, I have pretty much always supported the idea of both a pre-Flashpoint DCU line and a post-Flashpoint DCU line. I recognize the fact that there are people out there who do like the new direction of DC. I just don't know why they had to sacrifice the old DCU. Put them side by side and let the numbers really speak for themselves. :smt102
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby SporkBot » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:11 pm

syxxpakk wrote:
But what about the flip side of that, Zechs? What if I thought Spoiler and Cassandra Cain were stupid characters and am glad they're gone? What if I prefer Teen Titans now? What if Slobby on Superman is everything I ever wanted and I think he's made the character much better?


No accounting for taste? *rimshot* I kid, I kid...

Seriously, though, DC could've catered to both markets (people who love possible-killer Superman and those who prefer straight Alan Scott with a gay son) by following Marvel's example and having two universes going concurrently. What they've done is needlessly upset their loyal fanbase by complete lack of thinking. I understand there were fiscal reasons, but their route was not the wisest one, and it's already cost them. Their 3D cover gimmick is going to cost them even if they sell all of them (which they won't), and we're expected to believe that their bad press is all "social media's fault" (remember, the guy blaming Twitter for how poorly received Skank-fire was, might be the same guy that thought it was a great idea to give Tim Drake feathers).

Furthermore, if you didn't like a character, then don't buy their book. Saying, "I don't like this character, so no one should be able to read and enjoy them" is just silly. Someone at DC seems to already hate them both (which explains they tried killing one and turning the other evil, but fan outrage changed their minds), and that just goes to show how unbelievably petty that someone at DC is.

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby fieldy snuts » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:19 pm

syxxpakk wrote:
But what about the flip side of that, Zechs? What if I thought Spoiler and Cassandra Cain were stupid characters and am glad they're gone? What if I prefer Teen Titans now? What if Slobby on Superman is everything I ever wanted and I think he's made the character much better?


I agree with the first point, but everything else is ridiculous and no sane person would think that.
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Draco x » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:23 pm

Grayson wrote:
This is why, while I don't really care for the DCnU, I have pretty much always supported the idea of both a pre-Flashpoint DCU line and a post-Flashpoint DCU line. I recognize the fact that there are people out there who do like the new direction of DC. I just don't know why they had to sacrifice the old DCU. Put them side by side and let the numbers really speak for themselves. :smt102


As I said before they should have tried making New 52 a separate reality and see how well it was received rather than a very pointless reboot that served no real purpose.

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby syxxpakk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:59 pm

SporkBot wrote:No accounting for taste? *rimshot* I kid, I kid...

Seriously, though, DC could've catered to both markets (people who love possible-killer Superman and those who prefer straight Alan Scott with a gay son) by following Marvel's example and having two universes going concurrently. What they've done is needlessly upset their loyal fanbase by complete lack of thinking. I understand there were fiscal reasons, but their route was not the wisest one, and it's already cost them. Their 3D cover gimmick is going to cost them even if they sell all of them (which they won't), and we're expected to believe that their bad press is all "social media's fault" (remember, the guy blaming Twitter for how poorly received Skank-fire was, might be the same guy that thought it was a great idea to give Tim Drake feathers).


I'm very much inclined to agree as far as Dan Didio being something of a poor PR guy and the needless gimmicks. But that doesn't replace my enjoyment in the stories being told. :smt102

Furthermore, if you didn't like a character, then don't buy their book. Saying, "I don't like this character, so no one should be able to read and enjoy them" is just silly. Someone at DC seems to already hate them both (which explains they tried killing one and turning the other evil, but fan outrage changed their minds), and that just goes to show how unbelievably petty that someone at DC is.


That's exactly my point! Now pause for a second and realize: a lot of people are saying the same thing you are in the opposite direction. I'm cool with people not liking the New DC. Don't buy won't you don't like. But a lot of ya'll are saying the same thing that you want it to go back to where it was. If DC does that, you're ruining my good time. If DC keeps up with what I enjoy, it's ruining yours. If DC wanted to continue the old universe in a few series, then that's fine. I wouldn't complain. And this ties into your point Grayson, but they can't print 104 books and I'd much rather have 30 of the 52 over anything that was being published before.


draco x wrote:As I said before they should have tried making New 52 a separate reality and see how well it was received rather than a very pointless reboot that served no real purpose.


Didn't it make them a ton of money initially? That's a pretty good purpose.
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Grayson » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:09 pm

syxxpakk wrote:If DC wanted to continue the old universe in a few series, then that's fine. I wouldn't complain. And this ties into your point Grayson, but they can't print 104 books and I'd much rather have 30 of the 52 over anything that was being published before.


I agree, they can't print 104 books. However, they didn't need to print all 52 of the New 52 books. Hell, 52 is an odd number that somebody is fixated in. Why not start with 50 books. 25 from the previous DCU and 25 from the DCnU. This gives each set of fans plenty of choices to select from and it gives DC a good place to start. From there, DC can monitor trends in sales and figure out the best course of action. Maybe a book is doing badly in one line but another book is doing well in the other line and has generated a lot of interest in a particular character. Cancel the under performing book and launch a new title. Neither line needs more than 2-3 books from a particular family of characters at launch. Yes, you are still going to have fans griping but you are at least throwing them a bone. :smt102
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby syxxpakk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:13 pm

So then which books don't make the cut? I'm down with Liefeld's stuff getting cut. I see what you're saying, but if they go that route I still like the whole idea of the "52" (as a gimmick, I don't know, I just think it's clever). But I mean, yeah, sure toss in about 10 books or so for the old fans and I wouldn't mind and you would all probably enjoy that.

My main point is this: a lot of posters complain that the new 52 ruined DC for them and they want their old DC back - but in doing so, what you're asking for is to ruin it for some others. Granted, you Grayson are being a lot more reasonable with your "compromise"-suggestion!
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Draco x » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:31 pm

syxxpakk wrote:
I'm very much inclined to agree as far as Dan Didio being something of a poor PR guy and the needless gimmicks. But that doesn't replace my enjoyment in the stories being told. :smt102



That's exactly my point! Now pause for a second and realize: a lot of people are saying the same thing you are in the opposite direction. I'm cool with people not liking the New DC. Don't buy won't you don't like. But a lot of ya'll are saying the same thing that you want it to go back to where it was. If DC does that, you're ruining my good time. If DC keeps up with what I enjoy, it's ruining yours. If DC wanted to continue the old universe in a few series, then that's fine. I wouldn't complain. And this ties into your point Grayson, but they can't print 104 books and I'd much rather have 30 of the 52 over anything that was being published before.




Didn't it make them a ton of money initially? That's a pretty good purpose.


All gimmicks are designed to make lots of money but it doesn't mean change the fact that it at the end of the day is still nothing more than a gimmick-and a poorly thought out one at that.

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