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DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Doomsday

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Grayson » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:02 am

syxxpakk wrote:So then which books don't make the cut? I'm down with Liefeld's stuff getting cut.


Well, obviously now we know that there were several First Wave books that didn't exactly live up to expectations. There definitely would have been a problem deciding which DCU books to cancel and which DCnU books to launch but that's where test markets come in.

I see what you're saying, but if they go that route I still like the whole idea of the "52" (as a gimmick, I don't know, I just think it's clever).


They could still go the "52" route, I was just saying that they don't really have to be married to the idea. They could have went with 60 books and I think it still would have been viable. They could have split the titles right down the middle or went a little more on one side and I really don't think that it would have been as much of a problem. Just so long as an alternative was being offered.

But I mean, yeah, sure toss in about 10 books or so for the old fans and I wouldn't mind and you would all probably enjoy that.


Absolutely, I mean I would like to think that we would get a little more than 10 books... :P

...however, just the knowledge that those of us who still wanted to read about the characters that we knew and cared about weren't being ignored would have been enough for most of us. The fact that a line of books was still being published that acknowledged that all the DC characters still existed and new stories of their adventures could still be told would have been a blessing.

My main point is this: a lot of posters complain that the new 52 ruined DC for them and they want their old DC back - but in doing so, what you're asking for is to ruin it for some others. Granted, you Grayson are being a lot more reasonable with your "compromise"-suggestion!


I know, it's been 2 years. Obviously the New 52 isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so you have to adapt your argument. I may not like most of the DCnU but until September, I am still buying 3-4 of their monthly titles. Obviously somebody in that company is still doing something right. Before those who dislike the DCnU jump down my throat, notice that I said "somebody" and not "everybody." I think the DCnU still has a LOT of problems. If I had my choice, I would still choose the previous DCU but it's time to move on and adapt. However, I still encourage people to go to conventions and ask DC when Wally West is coming back. :wink:
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Zechs » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:01 am

Just Wally West? Some of us want the other parts of that missing cake that DC continues to neglect. :P All I want is DC to give Scott Snyder what he wants: Cassandra Cain. What could they possibly be so terrified of their best writer and most prolific writer take on a character all they've done is try and bury? Oh, right the character might topple their "saint" Barbara. I want it to happen so badly.
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby SporkBot » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:09 am

Zechs wrote:...I know it is inevitable that certain characters will return and YET another reboot/relaunch will occur. It is the nature of DC.


A friend of mine has been saying this. DC wipes their slate every few years since Crisis on Infinite Earths, but it was largely nickel-and-dime stuff with Zero Hour or the more recent Crises. Flashpoint was the first time since CoIE that they wiped the slate THAT thoroughly.

Just Wally West? Some of us want the other parts of that missing cake that DC continues to neglect. All I want is DC to give Scott Snyder what he wants: Cassandra Cain. What could they possibly be so terrified of their best writer and most prolific writer take on a character all they've done is try and bury? Oh, right the character might topple their "saint" Barbara.


And there's something else DC managed to shoot themselves in the foot over. Barb was a perfectly competent, capable character in her wheelchair. She showed readers that being crippled didn't mean you couldn't kick ass (questionable choice of words, but I'm sticking with them). She could still maintain that presence as Oracle, while Steph kicks ass as Batgirl and Cassandra as...well, with Dynamite reviving their Black Bat character, she'd need a different name. But that's okay. Let her keep her costume as previous (same with Steph) and we'll be good.

The wheelchair at least gives Barb depth. It sets her apart in an aspirational/inspirational way. But depth is obviously something they want destroy in the New52.

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Arion » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:26 pm

SporkBot wrote:
A friend of mine has been saying this. DC wipes their slate every few years since Crisis on Infinite Earths, but it was largely nickel-and-dime stuff with Zero Hour or the more recent Crises. Flashpoint was the first time since CoIE that they wiped the slate THAT thoroughly.



And there's something else DC managed to shoot themselves in the foot over. Barb was a perfectly competent, capable character in her wheelchair. She showed readers that being crippled didn't mean you couldn't kick ass (questionable choice of words, but I'm sticking with them). She could still maintain that presence as Oracle, while Steph kicks ass as Batgirl and Cassandra as...well, with Dynamite reviving their Black Bat character, she'd need a different name. But that's okay. Let her keep her costume as previous (same with Steph) and we'll be good.

The wheelchair at least gives Barb depth. It sets her apart in an aspirational/inspirational way. But depth is obviously something they want destroy in the New52.


Zero Hour only had a few minor adjustments.
The real problem started with Geoff Johns Infinite Crisis.

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby holtom2000 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:43 pm

Arion wrote:
Zero Hour only had a few minor adjustments.
The real problem started with Geoff Johns Infinite Crisis.


Think of how many new directions has dc undergone under didio... Seemingly every year

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Zechs » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:12 pm

holtom2000 wrote:
Think of how many new directions has dc undergone under didio... Seemingly every year


You have to give Didio credit. There hasn't been an DC event in how many years with the word CRISIS on it. Course now he's moved onto Zero Hour. Zero Year and Zero Month. :P
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby holtom2000 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:16 pm

Zechs wrote:
You have to give Didio credit. There hasn't been an DC event in how many years with the word CRISIS on it. Course now he's moved onto Zero Hour. Zero Year and Zero Month. :P

Lol emphasis on zero

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Grayson » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:00 pm

Zechs wrote:Just Wally West? Some of us want the other parts of that missing cake that DC continues to neglect. :P


Although he is easily the character that I miss the most from the previous DCU, I was just using Wally as an example. :P

Mainly, my point was that after 2 years it's time for us to move on. Syxx has a really good point, for DC to go back to the previous DCU now would mean that they would have to do to him (and fans like him) the same thing that they did to us when they started the DCnU. Maybe they will come upon some type of compromise, like what I have been talking about. However, to continue attacking them like we have been doing for the past 2 years is getting us nowhere and it is actually preventing other people from talking about the things that they do like about the books that they have been reading, which in my opinion is completely unfair.
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby syxxpakk » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:07 pm

Grayson wrote:
Although he is easily the character that I miss the most from the previous DCU, I was just using Wally as an example. :P

Mainly, my point was that after 2 years it's time for us to move on. Syxx has a really good point, for DC to go back to the previous DCU now would mean that they would have to do to him (and fans like him) the same thing that they did to us when they started the DCnU. Maybe they will come upon some type of compromise, like what I have been talking about. However, to continue attacking them like we have been doing for the past 2 years is getting us nowhere and it is actually preventing other people from talking about the things that they do like about the books that they have been reading, which in my opinion is completely unfair.


Compromise is the answer here, I wholeheartedly believe. You converted me to that line of thinking!
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Zechs » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:08 pm

Grayson wrote:
Although he is easily the character that I miss the most from the previous DCU, I was just using Wally as an example. :P

Mainly, my point was that after 2 years it's time for us to move on. Syxx has a really good point, for DC to go back to the previous DCU now would mean that they would have to do to him (and fans like him) the same thing that they did to us when they started the DCnU. Maybe they will come upon some type of compromise, like what I have been talking about. However, to continue attacking them like we have been doing for the past 2 years is getting us nowhere and it is actually preventing other people from talking about the things that they do like about the books that they have been reading, which in my opinion is completely unfair.


Hey! Did H.E.A.T. move on what Hal Jordan was considered evil? No! Geoff Johns made his way to DC Comics and worked onto to make sure to put his pure blooded waifu back onto that tall saddle of the Green Lantern franchise. Did Didio move on after three attempts and finally pulled the trigger with putting Barbara back as Batgirl?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?! NO! We must bitch until we get our way!!! For that truly is the American way on how to attain things!! Because if anything DC has shown us these ten years, favoritism is the way to go!
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sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Grayson » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:39 pm

Zechs wrote:Hey! Did H.E.A.T. move on what Hal Jordan was considered evil? No! Geoff Johns made his way to DC Comics and worked onto to make sure to put his pure blooded waifu back onto that tall saddle of the Green Lantern franchise. Did Didio move on after three attempts and finally pulled the trigger with putting Barbara back as Batgirl?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?! NO! We must bitch until we get our way!!! For that truly is the American way on how to attain things!! Because if anything DC has shown us these ten years, favoritism is the way to go!


I'm not saying that you have to give up, I'm just saying that obviously the tactics that people have been using haven't been working. Instead of being bitter and destructive, maybe it's time to try and be a little more positive and constructive. You keep bringing up Barbara Gordon but have you noticed that in the newest teasers that have been released, she isn't exactly wearing a Batgirl costume? Change could be on the horizon. :smt102

Besides, if you really do hate these guys as much as you seem to, why would you want to go down to their level? :P
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Grayson » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:40 pm

syxxpakk wrote:Compromise is the answer here, I wholeheartedly believe. You converted me to that line of thinking!


8) :like
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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby holtom2000 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:52 pm

Grayson wrote:
Although he is easily the character that I miss the most from the previous DCU, I was just using Wally as an example. :P

Mainly, my point was that after 2 years it's time for us to move on. Syxx has a really good point, for DC to go back to the previous DCU now would mean that they would have to do to him (and fans like him) the same thing that they did to us when they started the DCnU. Maybe they will come upon some type of compromise, like what I have been talking about. However, to continue attacking them like we have been doing for the past 2 years is getting us nowhere and it is actually preventing other people from talking about the things that they do like about the books that they have been reading, which in my opinion is completely unfair.


I'm never going back. Old dc trades, but new dc is dead to me. Which is why I don't understand why dc didn't just do the ultimate thing. Cause I was with dc for 30 years. Are these new readers going to be there with dc for the long run?

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby Zechs » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:55 pm

Grayson wrote:
I'm not saying that you have to give up, I'm just saying that obviously the tactics that people have been using haven't been working. Instead of being bitter and destructive, maybe it's time to try and be a little more positive and constructive. You keep bringing up Barbara Gordon but have you noticed that in the newest teasers that have been released, she isn't exactly wearing a Batgirl costume? Change could be on the horizon. :smt102

Besides, if you really do hate these guys as much as you seem to, why would you want to go down to their level? :P


Nah, she's about to reach trauma #3 cause you know to keep that flow of pain & edginess going so she goes BACK to the suit. :P

I want to be the better man, but obviously these fools will only listen via their own tactics.
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sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

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Re: DC Shocker: More Extreme is Added to Already Extreme Do

Postby holtom2000 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:56 pm

Zechs wrote:
Hey! Did H.E.A.T. move on what Hal Jordan was considered evil? No! Geoff Johns made his way to DC Comics and worked onto to make sure to put his pure blooded waifu back onto that tall saddle of the Green Lantern franchise. Did Didio move on after three attempts and finally pulled the trigger with putting Barbara back as Batgirl?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?! NO! We must bitch until we get our way!!! For that truly is the American way on how to attain things!! Because if anything DC has shown us these ten years, favoritism is the way to go!



Germans?

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