The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by SporkBot » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:31 pm

Herald wrote:Ask, and ye shall receive:

But, as we've seen, they made more mention of the character. You (and others; I've had a similar discussion before, on the DC Comics boards) simply missed it.

Even a civil discussion can result in some discomfort.

Ah, but what if they did, and you simply failed to see that they did?

I wouldn't call it animosity; it's really a well-earned skepticism. ...Black people can't just "let go" of the issue of race when it's being shoved in their faces all the time, even to this day. It's a persistent perception issue that white people are rarely confronted with in such a harsh manner.

Yeah, the only Catholics I can think of are Huntress Helena Bertinelli (who, despite wearing her cross on her late '90s costume like a good Catholic girl, killed people regularly like a BAD Catholic girl) and Cardinal Sin (who, as the name suggests, went evil).

Have you met my favorite Robin, Tim Drake?? He's an expert at telling the girls who proposition him, "Let's Wait A While." Even in the DiDio era, they managed to get that part of him right, when he turned down "Ravager".

by Arion » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:04 pm

SporkBot wrote:
What I remember was, in a conversation that somehow turned for the racial, Batman told him, "There are other heroes of color." Orpheus' response was that it was "not enough." There may have also been a reference to the League's headquarters being Mount Olympus or the like. That's really the majority of what I recall from the story.

My remark is admittedly a little glib, but not altogether inaccurate, either. He had a few other appearance (as noted on his Wikipedia page), so maybe he got better fleshed out there. But as for his introductory story...that's what it felt like.

by Draco x » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:35 pm

Herald wrote:
Ask, and ye shall receive:









That was from issue 4 of Batman: Orpheus Rising.



Five issues.



Before even the flashback I showed, in issue 3, we also got hints about where he comes from. In it, Orpheus talks via computer to an Oracle-like partner, who converses with him in a friendly manner and feeds him information. This informant even mentions that he was part of a team (leading to the question of what might have happened to them). When his ex-girlfriend shows up, we learn that he's a producer in a dance group, and he got her a job there as a dancer.



But, as we've seen, they made more mention of the character. You (and others; I've had a similar discussion before, on the DC Comics boards) simply missed it.



Even a civil discussion can result in some discomfort. I saw one discussion last week on... I believe it was CBS This Morning... in which the very first question was to the white people on a panel about how nervous the idea of talking about race was to them. They were indeed nervous... and the discussion was just beginning, with no foreknowledge of how it would turn out!



Ah, but what if they did, and you simply failed to see that they did??



I wouldn't call it animosity; it's really a well-earned skepticism. As I said, even today, blacks are disproportionately stopped-and-frisked under New York's controversial law. And, as President Obama acknowledged after the Trayvon Martin verdict, practically any black man knows the feeling of being followed in a store because of the perception that "black guy = potential criminal!" Even Oprah Winfrey can't go to a high-class store in Switzerland and buy an expensive purse without being told by the store clerk that it's far too expensive for her, when the only reason the lady had to doubt her ability to pay was her skin color.

Black people can't just "let go" of the issue of race when it's being shoved in their faces all the time, even to this day. It's a persistent perception issue that white people are rarely confronted with in such a harsh manner.



Yeah, the only Catholics I can think of are Huntress Helena Bertinelli (who, despite wearing her cross on her late '90s costume like a good Catholic girl, killed people regularly like a BAD Catholic girl) and Cardinal Sin (who, as the name suggests, went evil).



Have you met my favorite Robin, Tim Drake?? He's an expert at telling the girls who proposition him, "Let's Wait A While." Even in the DiDio era, they managed to get that part of him right, when he turned down "Ravager".

by SporkBot » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:40 am

draco x wrote:This is what I meant. A character who had that type of training deserved better than that pussy ending he got from getting so easily killed by Black Mask. I am pretty sure Orpheus would have beaten Black Mask within in an inch of his life in a fair fight. I theorize whoever wrote that shitty issue of War Games most likely knew nothing about the character or ever read a story with him beforehand.

by HNutz » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:42 am

draco x wrote:

This is what I meant. A character who had that type of training deserved better than that pussy ending he got from getting so easily killed by Black Mask. I am pretty sure Orpheus would have beaten Black Mask within in an inch of his life in a fair fight. I theorize whoever wrote that shitty issue of War Games most likely knew nothing about the character or ever read a story with him beforehand.

by Draco x » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:50 pm

SporkBot wrote:
Someone higher up at DC probably said, "We're killing Orpheus off because nobody seems to care about him, we don't really care how", and the writer went from there. That was the case for Adam Beechen writing "Evil Cassandra", so it wouldn't surprise me.

Despite all this, I don't think War Games was so bad.

by Draco x » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:51 pm

HNutz wrote:
But "Getting beat up because he liked to dance, so he learned to fight" doesn't exactly have the same ooomph as "family killed in front of him".

by Arion » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:31 pm

SporkBot wrote:
Someone higher up at DC probably said, "We're killing Orpheus off because nobody seems to care about him, we don't really care how", and the writer went from there. That was the case for Adam Beechen writing "Evil Cassandra", so it wouldn't surprise me.

Despite all this, I don't think War Games was so bad.

by SporkBot » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:56 pm

HNutz wrote:But "Getting beat up because he liked to dance, so he learned to fight" doesn't exactly have the same ooomph as "family killed in front of him".

draco x wrote:Good writing could have moved it beyond that though.

by Draco x » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:18 pm

SporkBot wrote:


I think it might've worked better if he'd been having a conversation with someone about it.
"You got beat up for dancing, so you learned to fight? That's weird."
"That's what I thought, back then. But [parent/teacher/mentor] told me that if it was what I really enjoyed, I had every right to do it. And if I got flak for it, I had every right to defend myself."
Then the obligatory statement about football players practicing ballet and other benefits of dance.

This would give the exposition a personal touch, and probably help better connect the character to the audience, narratively speaking. But that's just my thinking.

by syxxpakk » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:27 pm

by Draco x » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:38 pm

syxxpakk wrote:I have to say, if not for Dan Didio and Geoff Johns, I wouldn't be reading DC Comics right now. So I hope he continues to stay on.

by syxxpakk » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:42 pm

by Draco x » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:45 pm

syxxpakk wrote:No, because silly stuff like that doesn't ruin my day. What I'm saying is DC was pretty boring before he ( and to a greater extent Johns) came along, IMO. Now it's not.

by syxxpakk » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:51 pm