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Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

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RE: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby Rob Thomas » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:22 pm

I CAN'T be the only one outside of DC editorial who thought Batwoman being involved with a cop was a bad idea, can I?

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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby Doc Midnight » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:42 pm

Ok I think David Bird said it perfectly. The creators knew what the parameters were when they took the assignment. Batwoman is a part of the DCU and if editorial has to constantly remind you that she doesn't exist in a little pocket dimension of your own devising then it's going to cause a problem.

Does no one remember that this book started as a non DCN52 comic because Williams was mad late with it. So late in fact that after a crazy delay, they just had enough issues done that they could call it one of the 52 titles. It was never William's intention to have Batwoman be an active part of the greater DC Universe. Problem.

There is an edict at DC that pretty much NO ONE is getting married, Gay or Straight. I think their only married character might be Animal Man.

Also, as a current retailer, I have to say that "All these creators jumping ship" has become code for creators who have established themselves announcing creator owned projects. Williams himself is about to get some Sandman cash. We don't have to cry for him.

You know what an editor's job is? Its to be a pain in the ass.

The real difference between DC and Marvel right now is that Marvel is giving you the illusion that the creators are running things and having the biggest, grand party we've ever seen since the early days of Image Comics. It's the same in both companies i'd bet but Disney is a more stable parent environment than Warner Bros has been.

It is easy to see that DC is trying to be "Character Driven" on behalf of mercurial WB where Marvel is being "Creator Driven" as long as shit makes sense come movie time. I bet if this next batch of movies looks like ass and Disney tells Marvel to make the books follow those narratives even more, you'll hear some grousing beyond Greg Rucka leaving over the Punisher.

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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby Herald » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:46 pm

achilles wrote:Look on the bright side. DC, Didio, Harras, Lee, and Johns suck so much that they might just create a black hole of suckiness and cause time to go in reverse.


Reality-Breaking Paradox :shock:

Honestly, there just aren't enough palms in the world to do a face palm justice to these guys.

But getting rid of Didio alone won't do jack except make some of us feel better. It needs to be a clean sweep.


Agreed. That's why I refer to them collectively, as "Dan and the Gang". Warners has to dump the entire incompetent posse in order to restore order.

And then they need to mend fences with both the fans and the talent.


Simply putting DC "Under New Management" will help immensely with this goal.

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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby habitual » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:49 pm

Doc Midnight wrote:Ok I think David Bird said it perfectly. The creators knew what the parameters were when they took the assignment. Batwoman is a part of the DCU and if editorial has to constantly remind you that she doesn't exist in a little pocket dimension of your own devising then it's going to cause a problem.

Does no one remember that this book started as a non DCN52 comic because Williams was mad late with it. So late in fact that after a crazy delay, they just had enough issues done that they could call it one of the 52 titles. It was never William's intention to have Batwoman be an active part of the greater DC Universe. Problem.

There is an edict at DC that pretty much NO ONE is getting married, Gay or Straight. I think their only married character might be Animal Man.

Also, as a current retailer, I have to say that "All these creators jumping ship" has become code for creators who have established themselves announcing creator owned projects. Williams himself is about to get some Sandman cash. We don't have to cry for him.

You know what an editor's job is? Its to be a pain in the ass.

The real difference between DC and Marvel right now is that Marvel is giving you the illusion that the creators are running things and having the biggest, grand party we've ever seen since the early days of Image Comics. It's the same in both companies i'd bet but Disney is a more stable parent environment than Warner Bros has been.

It is easy to see that DC is trying to be "Character Driven" on behalf of mercurial WB where Marvel is being "Creator Driven" as long as shit makes sense come movie time. I bet if this next batch of movies looks like ass and Disney tells Marvel to make the books follow those narratives even more, you'll hear some grousing beyond Greg Rucka leaving over the Punisher.


They must be fooling the creators as well, because there sure as hell hasn't been a mass exodus of Marvel's creative talent. :smt017

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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby Doc Midnight » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:30 pm

Hab,

I think it's a drastically different situation. Why would Bendis, Hickman or Fraction leave? They get to decide the direction of the companies top properties. Waid, Aaron, Remender and Gillen have it pretty good.

Anyone I didn't name just needs to turn in books. That's it. Not a shit ton of controversy to be had over there. Brubaker and Rucka don't even need to be there. I just names a bunch of quality writers but when I look at the shelves, a lot more comics are being written by guys who aren't names and will do the job they are asked to do.

As a publisher I'd want to see Robinson, Williams, Diggle & JMS on my roster but those guys have enough cred that they can do other work so they probably don't need to take any of my editorial shit.

If I look outside my office and see Hickman, Bendis, Fraction, and Brian Wood sitting there, I might just STFU...unless The Giant Mouse Overlord was breathing down my neck.

Also the guys at Marvel come from the Indies. They've all cashed in on Creator Owned. This is a fact not lost on the folks leaving DC.

Who wants to push a pencil for the new yet familiar adventures of comics in the 90's at DC when they can make a splash on their own at Image or Darkhorse ala Baltazar, Rucka, Brubaker, BKV & JMS not to mention the Marvel guys STILL doing new Image titles like Hickman and Fraction.

We're all crying because established creators are leaving work for hire situations they agreed to in the 1st place. We should be watching the dudes who stay because if you want to see some creative growth, these guys now all have a chance to step up. See, Willians and Diggle don't have to work at DC but there are people at DC who have been fn killing it over there and no one is buying their books so they get cancelled.

To me it's a bigger crime to have to cancel Dial H and Demon Knights than it is to be mad that a creator quit because he could have a gay marriage in his book when he knew damn well that there were NO marriages PERIOD.

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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby achilles » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:47 pm

Again, I think some of us are confusing what the issue is. Sure, he was mad about the marriage thing, but that didn't seem to be what drove him away. It was continued, last minute editorial changes----the very same complain cited by Perez and others as they left.

Simply put, DC doesn't even seem to know what it wants. It wants prominent gay characters, but doesn't want them to be able to get married. Or rather, it probably did five minutes ago, but changed its mind.

It seems as though editorial is writing the books, rather than the pros. And that's coming from the comments of the guys we want to see doing that job as they leave for greener, or a least less aggravating pastures.

The same complaints come in again and again as people leave. What it amounts to is that there is no leadership at the top, and no real direction aside from Johns saying, "I love villains, let's do another villain thing!"

I think the problem is that the wrong guys have way too much power. Johns as a writer writing one or two books was bearable. Johns as a guy controlling the whole creative direction, such as it is, of the company is way too much.

Harras, a guy who ran Marvel into the ground, gets hired?!? Didio, a guy from children's television, who doesn't even appear to like kids, and had no experience in the comic book world AFAIK gets hired?!? Lee? Why are these guys even running things?

Where are the adults? When it comes down to it, the real problem IMO is that WB just doesn't care what DC does. So they can look at all this stuff happening and shrug their shoulders as long as Snyder makes another Superman movie.
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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby bkthomson » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:52 pm

Lord Simian wrote:
See, that's an argument I've heard before, and don't get. "They don't care what they publish, as long as they publish SOMETHING so they keep the rights."

They own the rights. It's not like they lose the rights to Ace The Bat Hound if they stop publishing Ace Comics Cavalcade.

I mean, Stephen King published IT in what, the 80's? The characters haven't been continually published, but if I put out a book next week called "Pennywise's Tiajuana Adventure", I bet Mr. King is gonna be knocking on my door PDQ...


Do it Monkey Man, maybe we can get a King interview.
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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby Zechs » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:55 pm

Doc Midnight wrote:Hab,

I think it's a drastically different situation. Why would Bendis, Hickman or Fraction leave? They get to decide the direction of the companies top properties. Waid, Aaron, Remender and Gillen have it pretty good.

Anyone I didn't name just needs to turn in books. That's it. Not a shit ton of controversy to be had over there. Brubaker and Rucka don't even need to be there. I just names a bunch of quality writers but when I look at the shelves, a lot more comics are being written by guys who aren't names and will do the job they are asked to do.

As a publisher I'd want to see Robinson, Williams, Diggle & JMS on my roster but those guys have enough cred that they can do other work so they probably don't need to take any of my editorial shit.

If I look outside my office and see Hickman, Bendis, Fraction, and Brian Wood sitting there, I might just STFU...unless The Giant Mouse Overlord was breathing down my neck.

Also the guys at Marvel come from the Indies. They've all cashed in on Creator Owned. This is a fact not lost on the folks leaving DC.

Who wants to push a pencil for the new yet familiar adventures of comics in the 90's at DC when they can make a splash on their own at Image or Darkhorse ala Baltazar, Rucka, Brubaker, BKV & JMS not to mention the Marvel guys STILL doing new Image titles like Hickman and Fraction.

We're all crying because established creators are leaving work for hire situations they agreed to in the 1st place. We should be watching the dudes who stay because if you want to see some creative growth, these guys now all have a chance to step up. See, Willians and Diggle don't have to work at DC but there are people at DC who have been fn killing it over there and no one is buying their books so they get cancelled.

To me it's a bigger crime to have to cancel Dial H and Demon Knights than it is to be mad that a creator quit because he could have a gay marriage in his book when he knew damn well that there were NO marriages PERIOD.




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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby Doc Midnight » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:55 pm

achilles wrote:Again, I think some of us are confusing what the issue is. Sure, he was mad about the marriage thing, but that didn't seem to be what drove him away. It was continued, last minute editorial changes----the very same complain cited by Perez and others as they left.

Simply put, DC doesn't even seem to know what it wants. It wants prominent gay characters, but doesn't want them to be able to get married. Or rather, it probably did five minutes ago, but changed its mind.

It seems as though editorial is writing the books, rather than the pros. And that's coming from the comments of the guys we want to see doing that job as they leave for greener, or a least less aggravating pastures.

Harras, a guy who ran Marvel into the ground, gets hired?!? Didio, a guy from children's television, who doesn't even appear to like kids, and had no experience in the comic book world AFAIK gets hired?!? Lee? Why are these guys even running things?

Where are the adults? When it comes down to it, the real problem IMO is that WB just doesn't care what DC does. So they can look at all this stuff happening and shrug their shoulders as long as Snyder makes another Superman movie.


Re: the Gay Marriage. THERE IS NO MARRIAGE. Gay or Otherwise. DC wants diverse and interesting characters but just because they are gay doesn't mean all your gay characters need to get married. Are all of your gay friends trying to get married? How about all your straight friends?

DC sees that as making a character less interesting. Editorial is clearly being more hands on. Creators who can make it out there on their own are taking shots. Creators who really need a pay check might be writing New Guardians or Suicide Squad.

I'm not sure saying, "prove you have the cred to be in charge" is the right thing to do. If you do that then you never would have gotten Quesada at Marvel.

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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby Chris » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:57 pm

Doc Midnight doesn't sound like a DC shill or anything.
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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby Doc Midnight » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:58 pm

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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby Zechs » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:02 pm

Look the great problem with DC is achilles pointed out. This issue isn't about marriage or gay marriage. It's about DC knowing what the hell they want. They go from at the start of the New 52 that all of Batman and GL history pre New 52 remained the same. Now? Who the fuck knows but they're redoing Batman's origin.

The same with Superman. They say he died but that is OBVIOUSLY not the case since we have Superboy and the Cyborg Superman both sharing vastly different and horrible save the clone part of Supes and Lois origins.

What DC needs is for someone to fire all their editors and hire editors and writers who haven't written a Marvel comic in the 90s. What they need is editors who just edit and don't dictate a story. They should learn to make things like Marvel is doing. Have a freaking coherent direction.
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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:03 pm

This is a list of creators (and one executive) who have allegedly suffered at the hands of DC's editorial mismanagement since Bob Harras took over and Dan and the Gang moved up to higher executive positions (courtesy of this brilliant timeline):

Nick Spencer (Supergirl)
John Rozum (Static Shock)
J.T. Krul (Green Arrow)
George Perez (Superman)
Gail Simone (Fury of Firestorm)
Ron Marz (Voodoo)
Chris Roberson (DC in general)
Rob Liefeld (Grifter, Deathstroke, Hawkman)
Karen Berger (Vertigo)
Gail Simone (Batgirl, later rehired)
Robert Vendetti (Constantine)
Jim Zubkavich (Birds of Prey)
Art Baltazar (Superman Family Adventures)
Franco (Superman Family Adventures)
Keith GIffen (Legion of Superheroes)
Todd Farmer (Insurgent)
Josh Fialkov (Green Lantern Corps, Red Lanterns)
Andy Diggle (Action Comics)
Tony S. Daniel (Action Comics)
Mike Johnson (Supergirl)
Bruce Timm (DC Animated)
Mico Suayan (Red Hood and the Outlaws)
James Robinson (Earth 2, DC in general)
Kevin Maguire (Justice League 3000)
J.H. Williams III (Batwoman)
W. Haden Blackman (Batwoman)


That's not counting regular creative team changes. They're all changes that came with some degree of controversy. You could maybe make a case for a few of them. All 26 of them? Where there's smoke there's fire.
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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:04 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:This is a list of creators (and one executive) who have allegedly suffered at the hands of DC's editorial mismanagement since Bob Harras took over and Dan and the Gang moved up to higher executive positions (courtesy of this brilliant timeline):

Nick Spencer (Supergirl)
John Rozum (Static Shock)
J.T. Krul (Green Arrow)
George Perez (Superman)
Gail Simone (Fury of Firestorm)
Ron Marz (Voodoo)
Chris Roberson (DC in general)
Rob Liefeld (Grifter, Deathstroke, Hawkman)
Karen Berger (Vertigo)
Gail Simone (Batgirl, later rehired)
Robert Vendetti (Constantine)
Jim Zubkavich (Birds of Prey)
Art Baltazar (Superman Family Adventures)
Franco (Superman Family Adventures)
Keith GIffen (Legion of Superheroes)
Todd Farmer (Insurgent)
Josh Fialkov (Green Lantern Corps, Red Lanterns)
Andy Diggle (Action Comics)
Tony S. Daniel (Action Comics)
Mike Johnson (Supergirl)
Bruce Timm (DC Animated)
Mico Suayan (Red Hood and the Outlaws)
James Robinson (Earth 2, DC in general)
Kevin Maguire (Justice League 3000)
J.H. Williams III (Batwoman)
W. Haden Blackman (Batwoman)


That's not counting regular creative team changes. They're all changes that came with some degree of controversy. You could maybe make a case for a few of them. All 26 of them? Where there's smoke there's fire.


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Re: Dan Didio Responds to Williams/Blackman Controversy

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:04 pm

Or sing a new verse of "We Didn't Start the Fire"
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