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Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

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Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby TimDrake'sDumbWings » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:44 am

Excellent issue as always. I'm really getting to like Javier Rodriguez's pencils. If they start rotating him with Samnee, that'd be a pretty good situation.

Also: did anyone notice that a Sally Draper living on 5th Avenue in NYC was listed as one of the jurors? The character was just about the age Sally would be right now, and I'm pretty sure the Drapers' current apartment is on 5th. If only copyright infringement didn't keep Waid from exploring that one more....

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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby chap22 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:03 am

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:Excellent issue as always. I'm really getting to like Javier Rodriguez's pencils. If they start rotating him with Samnee, that'd be a pretty good situation.

Also: did anyone notice that a Sally Draper living on 5th Avenue in NYC was listed as one of the jurors? The character was just about the age Sally would be right now, and I'm pretty sure the Drapers' current apartment is on 5th. If only copyright infringement didn't keep Waid from exploring that one more....


1) pretty sure this issue was drawn by Samnee.

2) yep, that was Sally Draper. there was also an Alex P. Keaton (you're telling your age by not recognizing that one even before Draper...that was Michael J. Fox's character on Family Ties :wink: ). Waid & co. also gave a shout-out to Kuljit Mithra (the dude who created/runs the manwithoutfear.com website), obviously included Jester's real name, and I imagine several other of the jurors were other DD-associated folks or pop culture names I just didn't recognize.

3) and yeah, this was yet another in a long line of awesome issues
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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby TimDrake'sDumbWings » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:10 am

chap22 wrote:
1) pretty sure this issue was drawn by Samnee.

2) yep, that was Sally Draper. there was also an Alex P. Keaton (you're telling your age by not recognizing that one even before Draper...that was Michael J. Fox's character on Family Ties :wink: ). Waid & co. also gave a shout-out to Kuljit Mithra (the dude who created/runs the manwithoutfear.com website), obviously included Jester's real name, and I imagine several other of the jurors were other DD-associated folks or pop culture names I just didn't recognize.

3) and yeah, this was yet another in a long line of awesome issues


Oops. You're right; it was Samnee. I saw Rodriguez's name as colorist and just assumed. Same happened last issue. Do we know if Rodriguez is coming back at all? I loved the two issues he did.

I recognized Alex P. Keaton upon seeing him, but immediately forgot to mention him once I saw Sally. I don't think you realize how happy this made me, chap.

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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby TimDrake'sDumbWings » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:25 am

Also, I remember an issue with Iron Man being solicited back in May; there was an awesome Paolo Riveira cover and everything. Shouldn't that have appeared already?

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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby Punchy » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:46 am

Hoo boy, I can sense this issue might cause a little bit of controversy. Or maybe not, I’ve been off-base in predicting that sort of thing lately. In this issue, Mark Waid and Chris Samnee do a ‘Law & Order’ and do a story that’s ‘ripped from the headlines’, and boy, what a headline this is. The case in this issue, where a white person is found innocent of the shooting of a young black kid they suspected of being a criminal is clearly, CLEARLY, based on the still controversial Trayvon Martin case, and I can’t help but wonder if it’s all a bit too soon for comics to be tackling this kind of issue.

Of course, this isn’t just Mark Waid getting on his soapbox (he has Twitter for that), as things quickly spiral out of control. As the prosecutor, a black man, is giving a statement on the Courthouse steps, he appears to reveal the names and addresses of the 12 members of the jury that let the killer off, calling them racist and basically inciting a riot. Of course, he didn’t actually do this, and only Matt Murdock can tell, and he suspects that this is down to the Sons Of The Serpent, and one of their hired guns, The Jester. It’s been great to see Waid turn a lot of these Z-List lame villains into credible threats, and if he can do what he did to The Spot to The Jester, then that would be fantastic, he doesn’t even really appear in this issue and he’s a credible threat.

Daredevil manages to save the prosecutor and the jury, as well as quell the riot (thanks to some help from Hank Pym, I’m still really loving the way Waid is using that character in this book), and he’s on The Jester’s trail, about to enter his apartment, where he’ll find… Foggy Nelson hanging from a noose? What the! That was a shocking ending to an issue that was already very surprising, now, there’s no way Foggy has committed suicide (he spent he opening few pages of the issue talking about how Matt’s fearlessness has rubbed off on him, and he’s probably not dead yet anyway), but for The Jester to set that up really does make him a formidable threat. And what the hell do the Legion Of Monsters have to do with this story? They are on the cover to #32 for some reason.

This book is still so consistently good, Samnee’s art perfectly complements Waid’s writing, I just hope the topical nature of the story here doesn’t put people off, what do you think? Are recent real-life cases fair game to insert superheroes into? Or is it too close to a still very raw bone?

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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby TimDrake'sDumbWings » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:13 pm

Punchy wrote:Hoo boy, I can sense this issue might cause a little bit of controversy. Or maybe not, I’ve been off-base in predicting that sort of thing lately. In this issue, Mark Waid and Chris Samnee do a ‘Law & Order’ and do a story that’s ‘ripped from the headlines’, and boy, what a headline this is. The case in this issue, where a white person is found innocent of the shooting of a young black kid they suspected of being a criminal is clearly, CLEARLY, based on the still controversial Trayvon Martin case, and I can’t help but wonder if it’s all a bit too soon for comics to be tackling this kind of issue.

Of course, this isn’t just Mark Waid getting on his soapbox (he has Twitter for that), as things quickly spiral out of control. As the prosecutor, a black man, is giving a statement on the Courthouse steps, he appears to reveal the names and addresses of the 12 members of the jury that let the killer off, calling them racist and basically inciting a riot. Of course, he didn’t actually do this, and only Matt Murdock can tell, and he suspects that this is down to the Sons Of The Serpent, and one of their hired guns, The Jester. It’s been great to see Waid turn a lot of these Z-List lame villains into credible threats, and if he can do what he did to The Spot to The Jester, then that would be fantastic, he doesn’t even really appear in this issue and he’s a credible threat.

Daredevil manages to save the prosecutor and the jury, as well as quell the riot (thanks to some help from Hank Pym, I’m still really loving the way Waid is using that character in this book), and he’s on The Jester’s trail, about to enter his apartment, where he’ll find… Foggy Nelson hanging from a noose? What the! That was a shocking ending to an issue that was already very surprising, now, there’s no way Foggy has committed suicide (he spent he opening few pages of the issue talking about how Matt’s fearlessness has rubbed off on him, and he’s probably not dead yet anyway), but for The Jester to set that up really does make him a formidable threat. And what the hell do the Legion Of Monsters have to do with this story? They are on the cover to #32 for some reason.

This book is still so consistently good, Samnee’s art perfectly complements Waid’s writing, I just hope the topical nature of the story here doesn’t put people off, what do you think? Are recent real-life cases fair game to insert superheroes into? Or is it too close to a still very raw bone?


Shit, was that supposed to be Foggy? I saw a resemblance, but thought it was just some redheaded dude. Did I miss something?

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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby chap22 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:23 pm

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:Shit, was that supposed to be Foggy? I saw a resemblance, but thought it was just some redheaded dude. Did I miss something?

we're obviously supposed to think it's Foggy (see the letter addressed to "Matty" on the chair he probably kicked himself/was kicked by someone else off of). pretty obviously a classic bait-and-switch cliffhanger swerve, IMMO.
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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby chap22 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:28 pm

As for Punchy's question about the topical references/homage (is that really the word here? probably not...) to the Zimmerman case, I don't think it will (or at least I hope it doesn't) put readers off, b/c the case is just there for show to set up the DD action, and Waid does it pretty deftly. He doesn't take a stance on the actual issues at play in the case, it's not some heavy-handed soapbox moment...it's not the focus of the issue, it's basically just a plot device to be used by the Sons of the Serpent and the Jester to incite riots in DD's home turf, furthering their aims of corrupting the city and taking care of whatever undesirables they deem need taking care of. Clearly you can see the parallels, but the story's not about the facts of the case, or the parties to the case, at all. It's about manipulation of people's feelings using that case as a match to light a fire.
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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby TimDrake'sDumbWings » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:07 pm

chap22 wrote:we're obviously supposed to think it's Foggy (see the letter addressed to "Matty" on the chair he probably kicked himself/was kicked by someone else off of). pretty obviously a classic bait-and-switch cliffhanger swerve, IMMO.


Yeah, I assumed it was the Jester leaving a corpse behind and taunting Daredevil with a letter calling him "Matty," like he knows him personally. That sure would suck if it were Franklin!

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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby TimDrake'sDumbWings » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:08 pm

chap22 wrote:As for Punchy's question about the topical references/homage (is that really the word here? probably not...) to the Zimmerman case, I don't think it will (or at least I hope it doesn't) put readers off, b/c the case is just there for show to set up the DD action, and Waid does it pretty deftly. He doesn't take a stance on the actual issues at play in the case, it's not some heavy-handed soapbox moment...it's not the focus of the issue, it's basically just a plot device to be used by the Sons of the Serpent and the Jester to incite riots in DD's home turf, furthering their aims of corrupting the city and taking care of whatever undesirables they deem need taking care of. Clearly you can see the parallels, but the story's not about the facts of the case, or the parties to the case, at all. It's about manipulation of people's feelings using that case as a match to light a fire.


Yeah, I was a little taken aback when the situation first appeared in the story; seemed like a prime moment to get on a soapbox. But, as you said, Waid merely used it as an impetus for the plot of the story, which was perfectly fine.

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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby TimDrake'sDumbWings » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:21 pm

I read it again. The hanging man has Foggy's DD T-shirt and is wearing hospital slippers. Can't believe I missed that!

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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby HNutz » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:25 am

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:I read it again. The hanging man has Foggy's DD T-shirt and is wearing hospital slippers. Can't believe I missed that!


I think we're meant to think it's Foggy, but I doubt it's him.

The DD Shirts were given to everyone in the cancer ward.
The hospital slippers are probably pretty generic.
The red hair and the "Matty" letter certainly LOOK like they belong to Foggy but they could easily be faked, too.

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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby guitarsmashley » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:23 pm

it's not foggy, the pants were all wrong.
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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby Stephen Day » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:55 pm

chap22 wrote:As for Punchy's question about the topical references/homage (is that really the word here? probably not...) to the Zimmerman case, I don't think it will (or at least I hope it doesn't) put readers off, b/c the case is just there for show to set up the DD action, and Waid does it pretty deftly. He doesn't take a stance on the actual issues at play in the case, it's not some heavy-handed soapbox moment...it's not the focus of the issue, it's basically just a plot device to be used by the Sons of the Serpent and the Jester to incite riots in DD's home turf, furthering their aims of corrupting the city and taking care of whatever undesirables they deem need taking care of. Clearly you can see the parallels, but the story's not about the facts of the case, or the parties to the case, at all. It's about manipulation of people's feelings using that case as a match to light a fire.


I agree that it was just a plot device, which is why I really don't think Waid should have even gone there. Why take a chance at all of creating a problematic distraction in your story over a plot point that really doesn't seem to be that important overall?
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Re: Daredevil 31 (Mad Men crossover spoilers)

Postby Lord Simian » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:12 pm

and I imagine several other of the jurors were other DD-associated folks or pop culture names I just didn't recognize.


What were the names?

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