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ObamaCare Only Thread

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The Old Doctor
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby The Old Doctor » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:54 pm

Spektre wrote:
HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYONE



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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Spektre » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:53 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
Did you read the whole article?

"“This is so poorly designed that a lot of doctors are afraid to participate,” said Dr. Sam Unterricht, president of the 29,000-member organization. “There’s a lot of resistance. Doctors don’t know what they’re going to get paid.”"


Yep, read the whole thing. Not a particularly well written piece. Nevertheless, because SOME docs don't know what they are going to be paid, doesn't preclude other docs from not joining due to poor reimbursement.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Spektre » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:55 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:Also, doctors don't take all insurance anyway so why would they participate? I have a doctor who doesn't take my insurance. It happens. :smt102

If your doctor doesn't take the insurance you sign up for with Obamacare and that means a lot to you, then you should use the exchange to find an insurance that he does thane. Not sure what the problem is.


Did you read the article? (Dunno it just seemed like the thing to say). They are not participating IN THE EXCHANGES. That means going to the exchange will locate you zero (0) policies "he does thane".

They aren't signing up there because, unlike the current private insurance model, they feel they will not be reimbursed well enough.

Yes it is too early to say I told you so, but...
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Spektre » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:57 pm

achilles wrote:It's a bit of a problem for me, since I want a fairly specialized surgery, and I'm not sure if I can find a guy to do it, either on a slimmed-down PPO, or at an HMO like Kaiser. And the doctor/hospital check function on Covered California is off and on again. I never seem to catch it on.


Again, check the PPO plans for "Out of Network" coverages.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:50 am

As problems mount with the basic business model of ObamaCare, and more and more experts are starting to say it's going to collapse as it's written, and must be completely redone, and amidst the reports of the President and nearly all his top people including the top Democrats in Congress deliberately and repeatedly lying to the American people about a number of things including the famous "you can keep your policy" refrain during the run-up to implementation; I'm having serious doubts as to the viability of the law.

In other words, what a week ago I had concerns with, I'm starting to get real worry.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:25 am

Amid the worst poll numbers of the Obama Presidency over the widely reported revelations that Obama and virtually all top Democrats blatantly lied to the American people about the "if you like you plan/doctor, you can keep them" thing, plus the botched roll out and website, Dems are panicking and going over to the "delay the mandate" side. They are also, like the govenor of Louisiana, trying to get legislation passed that will allow people to keep their plans.

Also, House Republicans have said they and their staffs will all abide by ObamaCare, while Senate Dems are divided, but still leaning toward flouting it. No word on what the House Dems or the Administration staff are planning on doing.

I suppose this proves that neither party had the monopoly on stupid. The Republican handed the Dems an issue with the shutdown, then the Dems decided to be generous and give it back with interest with the ObamaCare thing.

Also, apparently the HHS Secretary doesn't even know the ObamaCare law herself, saying that it would be "illegal" for her to go on it, since she already has insurance. Hint: it's not. She just won't be eligible for subsidies.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:45 pm

Well, this just gets better and better. According to Administration estimates, about 93 million Americans will lose their current health plans by the end of 2013, including those with employer based health plans. About 66% of those working for small businesses will lose theirs, while 45% of those working for large employers will lose their plans.

These BTW are Administration mid-range estimates. So, essentially very few Americans will be able to keep their plans long-term.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:50 pm

Let me point out that the Democrats and Obama not only own the problems I mentioned in the previous post, but they evidently wanted them.

CNN reports that in 2010, Senate Democrats blocked a Republican proposal to abandon the grandfather clause that is largely responsible for so many millions of Americans losing their current coverage...on a straight party-line vote.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Spektre » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:06 pm

Dude,

You are either

a: preaching to the choir.
b: preaching to people who don't want to think or don't care about the issues you are bringing up.

And w.r.t. b, look in the mirror.

I have heard you say repeatedly that in a caring society, we take care of those that blah blah blah.

But stop and think a minute...

Force insurance companies to cover the folks who already have pre-existing conditions but premiums will not rise is a ludicrous position.

Add a multitude of regulations that policies must meet to be compliant and make an entire sector of the industry less attractive to industrious individuals but you can keep your doctor and your plan is a ludicrous position.

This law is a fraud. Its sole purpose is to crash the current healthcare system to the point where government must swoop in as the "only savior" and a single payor system can be ushered in.

Do not expect to see healthcare in the US that resembles the top-notch care you have been used to.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

And here's a personal story from someone who is about as unlucky as it gets, and also one tough SOB.

It puts a real personal spin of the harm ObamaCare is doing some.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby syxxpakk » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:46 pm

Pretty shitty of UHC.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby achilles » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:47 pm

Spektre wrote:Dude,

You are either

a: preaching to the choir.
b: preaching to people who don't want to think or don't care about the issues you are bringing up.

And w.r.t. b, look in the mirror.

I have heard you say repeatedly that in a caring society, we take care of those that blah blah blah.

But stop and think a minute...

Force insurance companies to cover the folks who already have pre-existing conditions but premiums will not rise is a ludicrous position.

Add a multitude of regulations that policies must meet to be compliant and make an entire sector of the industry less attractive to industrious individuals but you can keep your doctor and your plan is a ludicrous position.

This law is a fraud. Its sole purpose is to crash the current healthcare system to the point where government must swoop in as the "only savior" and a single payor system can be ushered in.

Do not expect to see healthcare in the US that resembles the top-notch care you have been used to.


Top notch care? Actually, personally I'm used to the Three Stooges as doctors and nurses. With a few vital exceptions, my care has been terrible, and the doctors rude and arrogant.

That aside, yes, a caring society does need to do what I've said. But I've also said that this law was very poorly made, it seems for political reasons. Whether or not it was to pave the way to a single payer system, I don't know. They couldn't get that to fly before, and now, this massive demonstration of government incompetence will only cement that failure. It will be even more unlikely after this.

Which doesn't mean it couldn't have been done right. If Obama and the Dems had bothered to listen to the Republicans, the costs would have been driven down, but they were too arrogant. And too there were other things they could have done, starting with a much shorter and more understandable bill.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Spektre » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:58 pm

achilles wrote:
Top notch care? Actually, personally I'm used to the Three Stooges as doctors and nurses. With a few vital exceptions, my care has been terrible, and the doctors rude and arrogant.

That aside, yes, a caring society does need to do what I've said. But I've also said that this law was very poorly made, it seems for political reasons. Whether or not it was to pave the way to a single payer system, I don't know. They couldn't get that to fly before, and now, this massive demonstration of government incompetence will only cement that failure. It will be even more unlikely after this.

Which doesn't mean it couldn't have been done right. If Obama and the Dems had bothered to listen to the Republicans, the costs would have been driven down, but they were too arrogant. And too there were other things they could have done, starting with a much shorter and more understandable bill.


It is still the country where royalty often comes when it needs healthcare.

Sorry man, I like ya, but you aren't getting off the hook.

So long as you and people like you remain delusional, we cannot make progress. This is NOT a football game. This is not a mess simply because President Obama did it. This is not a mess because they "didn't listen to Republicans". This is a mess because it flows from a flawed premise.

You cannot provide insurance to people for whom it is not profitable and expect premiums to remain steady or fall. Providing insurance to sick people and people who are not paying for it, must necessarily be offset by raising the rates to others who converting the shortfall to debt.

This is basic arithmetic, and arithmetic notoriously could not care a bit what a "caring society should do."
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- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Frag » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:01 pm

It's bullshit that UHC can do that. Let's look at the real villain in this case. This doesn't sound like a policy being cancelled because it doesn't fit the ACA's requirements.

There should be a law against insurance companies being able to do this.
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Re: ObamaCare Only Thread

Postby Spektre » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:11 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:It's bullshit that UHC can do that. Let's look at the real villain in this case. This doesn't sound like a policy being cancelled because it doesn't fit the ACA's requirements.

There should be a law against insurance companies being able to do this.


Wait...so you propose that not only do individuals who do not want to purchase a product be forced to buy it...now you also desire that companies who do not wish to SELL a product be forced to sell it. LOL, priceless.

The simple facts are ROTM, this is a plan they were able to profitably provide prior to Obamacare, and now they cannot.

Maybe you should read a little more closely at who the person likely given a death sentence by Obamacare blames.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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