Advertisement

Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicate?

Discuss the latest comic book news and front page articles, read or post your own reviews of comics, and talk about anything comic book related. Threads from the two subforums below will also show up here. News Stand topics can also be read and posted in from The Asylum.

Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Logged in users see WAY LESS ADS, so why not register? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*

*Membership spots not really limited!

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1820
Likes: 13 posts
Liked in: 57 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicate?

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:33 pm

Don't laugh -- if you've been reading "Forever Evil" and "Justice League," you know exactly what I'm talking about

Combine Geoff Johns' love of supervillains with the power sets of those two characters, and for those of you who play video games, it's like combining Shao Kahn from MK 2, Mike Tyson from Punch Out and Akuma from Street Fighter 2 for how broken those two characters are right now
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

Advertisement

Mr. Log
User avatar
rubber spoon
 
Posts: 6122
Likes: 81 posts
Liked in: 100 posts
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:43 am
Title: HRUNK!
Formerly: Log-Man


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby Mr. Log » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:46 pm

For those not reading, can you give brief examples?

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1820
Likes: 13 posts
Liked in: 57 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:01 pm

Log-Man wrote:For those not reading, can you give brief examples?


Well, JL #28 came out today, and while some of it's in the preview, I won't spoil that one, for those who haven't read that or the issue yet

But thus far, Atomica's ability to shrink has enabled her to plant a sliver of Kryptonite in Superman's brain without a single one of The Man of Tomorrow's 600 Super-Senses knowing she was there, while she and Johnny Quick have been tear-assing all through the DC Universe in damn near "Flawless Victory" fashion -- it's a freaking joke now.

Makes you wonder how and why the Flash hasn't cleaned up the entire DC Universe by now -- oh, wait...he's one of the Good Guys, so all the broken shit that Johnny Quick is doing, Flash can't or won't do, including exiling a time-displaced character back to where they came from like JQ did to Kid Flash while also taking the Teen Titans off the board in about three seconds or less

That whole deal would've come in handy when Professor Zoom was running around murdering people, but alas, Barry Allen's efforts to use super-speed for anything other than running fast gets you straight to Flashpoint and nearly murders the Earth because Aquaman and Wonder Woman become really mean people and Deathstroke becomes a pirate
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

Draco x
User avatar
FROGMAN
 
Posts: 8622
Likes: 642 posts
Liked in: 196 posts
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:51 am


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby Draco x » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:00 pm

Interesting points you have brought up here.

Mr. Log
User avatar
rubber spoon
 
Posts: 6122
Likes: 81 posts
Liked in: 100 posts
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:43 am
Title: HRUNK!
Formerly: Log-Man


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby Mr. Log » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:26 pm

The Flash has always been potentially god-awful powerful. Part of the reason Wally West was made a goof was so he didn't get too serious and try to discover how lethal and destructive he could really be. (see also Iceman) There were little moments revealed in the books and the JL cartoons of what he could achieve, but it usually scared him. Remember when Lex jumped into his head and trashed everyone? If you have an evil, smart Flash level speedster, then yeah, you really don't need anyone else.

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1820
Likes: 13 posts
Liked in: 57 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:56 pm

Log-Man wrote:The Flash has always been potentially god-awful powerful. Part of the reason Wally West was made a goof was so he didn't get too serious and try to discover how lethal and destructive he could really be. (see also Iceman) There were little moments revealed in the books and the JL cartoons of what he could achieve, but it usually scared him. Remember when Lex jumped into his head and trashed everyone? If you have an evil, smart Flash level speedster, then yeah, you really don't need anyone else.


And see, that's what frustrates me greatly about how Johns and some others use supervillains. It's so totally out of balance, you can't help but read stories from DC and just go WHAT THE HELL.

For instance: Take Black Adam.

I watched Black Adam tear-ass the entire world in "World War III." OK. And 99 times out of 100, when Geoff Johns writes him, Black Adam is kicking somebody's ass. Usually a pretty severe ass-kicking, I might add.

But what happens when Johns has Black Adam go up against Villain Flavor of the Month Ultraman? Well, see, now Black Adam gets to know what it feels like to get nerfed, including getting a One-Handed Face Crush and dropped into the freaking ocean to die, while Ultraman flies off laughing. Black Adam's jaw's still freaking broken, so clearly, those same deities who allowed him to beat the hell out of Martian Manhunter aren't giving him any healing assistance

Another example: Deathstorm.

There might be nothing worse than Geoff Johns' usage of a Firestorm-like character for evil, because that character can do damn near anything, including rewiring New 52 Captain Cold's DNA so he no longer has internalized powers, which conveniently means he gets to run around with a cold gun because that's how Johns likes him. He also did the neat trick of separating Jason Rusch and Ronnie Raymond, just because fuck you, that's why

Again, that would come in handy if the real Firestorm could, oh, I don't know...call me crazy...let me see here...STRIP SUPERVILLAINS OF THEIR POWERS WITH A QUICK HANDWAVE.

When you read "Forever Evil," that's what stands out most -- I touched on it a few months back. It's not enough for their to be more villains than superheroes, simply based on how comics work.

With DC under Johns, the villains also know more about their powers than the heroes do about theirs, use those powers more effectively and, as always, the heroes -- except for Batman -- usually have no damn clue what's going on, at all, until somebody's blowing shit up or punching them in the face
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1820
Likes: 13 posts
Liked in: 57 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:10 pm

In many ways, though, that's why I'm looking forward to Lex Luthor and Captain Cold joining the Justice League -- if ever the Space-Time Continuum were to collapse, it will come when Geoff Johns nerfs Lex Luthor and Captain Cold at the same time he's nerfing Batman, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel so the Justice League can get pwned by somebody like the Floronic Man
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

The Beast
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 2072
Likes: 137 posts
Liked in: 63 posts
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:56 pm
Location: The True North, strong and free!
Title: Chronic MasterDebator


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby The Beast » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:14 pm

Isn't Flash still imprisoned in the Firestorm matrix?

Grayson
User avatar
Outhouse Drafter
 
Posts: 7945
Likes: 334 posts
Liked in: 589 posts
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:34 am
Location: The Darkest Timeline
Title: The Intersect
Formerly: Sakie


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby Grayson » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:15 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:There might be nothing worse than Geoff Johns' usage of a Firestorm-like character for evil, because that character can do damn near anything, including rewiring New 52 Captain Cold's DNA so he no longer has internalized powers, which conveniently means he gets to run around with a cold gun because that's how Johns likes him.


I had no interest in reading Forever Evil until a few months ago I read a review of one of the issues that included this little tidbit...now I can't wait for the trade. :oops:
ImageImageImage

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1820
Likes: 13 posts
Liked in: 57 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:21 pm

The Beast wrote:Isn't Flash still imprisoned in the Firestorm matrix?


Why, of course he is, my friend. Of course he is.
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1820
Likes: 13 posts
Liked in: 57 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:22 pm

Grayson wrote:
I had no interest in reading Forever Evil until a few months ago I read a review of one of the issues that included this little tidbit...now I can't wait for the trade. :oops:


It's OK -- I'm reading it, so I'm certainly not going to judge anyone else for doing so.
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

HNutz
User avatar
PЦИKЧ ВЯЁ&#106
 
Posts: 14375
Likes: 2455 posts
Liked in: 371 posts
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:22 pm


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby HNutz » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:27 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
And see, that's what frustrates me greatly about how Johns and some others use supervillains. It's so totally out of balance, you can't help but read stories from DC and just go WHAT THE HELL.

For instance: Take Black Adam.

I watched Black Adam tear-ass the entire world in "World War III." OK. And 99 times out of 100, when Geoff Johns writes him, Black Adam is kicking somebody's ass. Usually a pretty severe ass-kicking, I might add.

But what happens when Johns has Black Adam go up against Villain Flavor of the Month Ultraman? Well, see, now Black Adam gets to know what it feels like to get nerfed, including getting a One-Handed Face Crush and dropped into the freaking ocean to die, while Ultraman flies off laughing. Black Adam's jaw's still freaking broken, so clearly, those same deities who allowed him to beat the hell out of Martian Manhunter aren't giving him any healing assistance

Another example: Deathstorm.

There might be nothing worse than Geoff Johns' usage of a Firestorm-like character for evil, because that character can do damn near anything, including rewiring New 52 Captain Cold's DNA so he no longer has internalized powers, which conveniently means he gets to run around with a cold gun because that's how Johns likes him. He also did the neat trick of separating Jason Rusch and Ronnie Raymond, just because fuck you, that's why

Again, that would come in handy if the real Firestorm could, oh, I don't know...call me crazy...let me see here...STRIP SUPERVILLAINS OF THEIR POWERS WITH A QUICK HANDWAVE.

When you read "Forever Evil," that's what stands out most -- I touched on it a few months back. It's not enough for their to be more villains than superheroes, simply based on how comics work.

With DC under Johns, the villains also know more about their powers than the heroes do about theirs, use those powers more effectively and, as always, the heroes -- except for Batman -- usually have no damn clue what's going on, at all, until somebody's blowing shit up or punching them in the face


If Firestorm did that... it wouldn't be "cruel and unusual punishment" or anything. It would be a nice alternative to having prisons full of superpowered criminals.

Grayson
User avatar
Outhouse Drafter
 
Posts: 7945
Likes: 334 posts
Liked in: 589 posts
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:34 am
Location: The Darkest Timeline
Title: The Intersect
Formerly: Sakie


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby Grayson » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:28 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:It's OK -- I'm reading it, so I'm certainly not going to judge anyone else for doing so.


I can't really say that unpowering Captain Cold is the only reason that I decided to pick it up in trade but it was the deciding factor. I have been reading Flash since the relaunch and I can honestly say that internalizing the rogue's powers was easily the dumbest move that was made in the series...unless you count Barry's relationship with Patty Spivot instead of Iris West...so obviously I will jump at the chance to see somebody undo it.
ImageImageImage

Grayson
User avatar
Outhouse Drafter
 
Posts: 7945
Likes: 334 posts
Liked in: 589 posts
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:34 am
Location: The Darkest Timeline
Title: The Intersect
Formerly: Sakie


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby Grayson » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:30 pm

HNutz wrote:If Firestorm did that... it wouldn't be "cruel and unusual punishment" or anything. It would be a nice alternative to having prisons full of superpowered criminals.


Let's not forget that Firestorm simply may not know how to do all of the things that Deathstorm can because Firestorm doesn't go around experimenting on people while Deathstorm probably does. :smt102
ImageImageImage

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1820
Likes: 13 posts
Liked in: 57 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Do Johnny Quick and Atomica even need the Crime Syndicat

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:41 pm

Grayson wrote:
Let's not forget that Firestorm simply may not know how to do all of the things that Deathstorm can because Firestorm doesn't go around experimenting on people while Deathstorm probably does. :smt102


No, you are totally correct -- that's how it happens. It's a reasonably valid excuse, and again, I get it: Villains. Dangerous.

But at the same time...that's always the excuse. The villains are always willing to go farther, do more, experiment more.

So, at some point, the balance becomes out of whack and you have three teams of Justice League, the Teen Titans, Nightwing, etc., all getting embarrassed.

I read a lot of Marvel now, and as a whole, they've got it figured out a bit more, to my way of thinking -- the villains are dangerous and still pose a credible threat, still push the heroes really hard and get their share of victories, but for the Marvel books I read, I rarely get the feel I do when I read DC stuff, that the heroes are just lucky to survive
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

leave a comment with facebook

Next

Return to The News Stand



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FaceBook [Linkcheck], The Old Doctor, Yahoo [Bot] and 150 guests

Advertisement