Advertisement

The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

This is the main board on The Outhouse, where Outhousers talk about everything. No topics are off limits, and it doesn't have to be about comics. All the topics from the other boards also show up in The Asylum, so you never have to leave1

Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Logged in users see WAY LESS ADS, so why not register? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*

*Membership spots not really limited!

Lord Simian
User avatar
The Lord of the Monkeys
 
Posts: 34940
Likes: 169 posts
Liked in: 283 posts
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:57 am
Location: Poosting from The Outhouse


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Lord Simian » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:14 am

Well, maybe if it was anyone else, but since it's not... fuck Joey Ryan! :twisted:

Advertisement

Mr. Log
User avatar
rubber spoon
 
Posts: 6274
Likes: 140 posts
Liked in: 151 posts
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:43 am
Title: HRUNK!
Formerly: Log-Man


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Mr. Log » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:19 am

Who?

Punchy
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 34453
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 77 posts
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:27 am
Location: UK
Title: Shitlord



Stephen Day
User avatar
Wrasslin' Fan
 
Posts: 35565
Likes: 610 posts
Liked in: 398 posts
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Canada
Title: Maple Leaf Ninja


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Stephen Day » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:55 pm

misac wrote:
So New Japan is no different than WWE in that aspect. :D


Somewhat, it would be my opinion though that New Japan has more of a track record in overlooking this bias if someone has enough of a talent level. It's still not an uncommon event for somebody to come into New Japan from another company and do well without being expected to train at New Japan's dojo. The Fed will do that as well but they don't do it nearly as often.
Image

Thank you Troy for the sig

Stephen Day
User avatar
Wrasslin' Fan
 
Posts: 35565
Likes: 610 posts
Liked in: 398 posts
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Canada
Title: Maple Leaf Ninja


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Stephen Day » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:56 pm

RIP Viscera/Mabel

:(
Image

Thank you Troy for the sig

troysshr
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 27005
Likes: 963 posts
Liked in: 464 posts
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 7:40 pm
Location: Georgia
Title: I'm a Paul Heyman Guy.
Formerly: T-Rex


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby troysshr » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:30 am

I watched a new Jeff Hardy Willow promo and I have to say he's really not that bad in this persona of his. He seems to really get into the character and the laugh he does is really cool and creepy. I know since it's in TNA it won't amount to a hill of beans because nothing there ever does but this might get me to at least tune in a couple times to see what it's all about. I've always enjoyed characters in wrestling, like Undertaker, Kane, and more recently the Wyatts. I think that is a big thing that is missing from todays wrestling is lack of characters and I guess thats why I find The Willow character somewhat interesting.
Image

Lord Simian
User avatar
The Lord of the Monkeys
 
Posts: 34940
Likes: 169 posts
Liked in: 283 posts
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:57 am
Location: Poosting from The Outhouse


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Lord Simian » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:41 am

Agent of the Bat wrote:I watched a new Jeff Hardy Willow promo and I have to say he's really not that bad in this persona of his. He seems to really get into the character and the laugh he does is really cool and creepy. I know since it's in TNA it won't amount to a hill of beans because nothing there ever does but this might get me to at least tune in a couple times to see what it's all about. I've always enjoyed characters in wrestling, like Undertaker, Kane, and more recently the Wyatts. I think that is a big thing that is missing from todays wrestling is lack of characters and I guess thats why I find The Willow character somewhat interesting.


The trick isn't characters, though. Kane is a character, yes. But so were Isaac Yankem, DDS... and the Christmas Creature!

The trick is to be a GOOD character. :P

Punchy
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 34453
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 77 posts
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:27 am
Location: UK
Title: Shitlord


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Punchy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:04 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
Somewhat, it would be my opinion though that New Japan has more of a track record in overlooking this bias if someone has enough of a talent level. It's still not an uncommon event for somebody to come into New Japan from another company and do well without being expected to train at New Japan's dojo. The Fed will do that as well but they don't do it nearly as often.


There's loads of people in the WWE right now who made their name elsewhere first though.

Cesaro, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Evan Bourne, Seth Rollins came from ROH.

Dean Ambrose and Luke Harper were also popular on the Indies.

Internationally, Alberto Del Rio, El Torito and Sin Cara (both of them) were popular in Mexico, Yoshi Tatsu was somewhat known in Japan, and the likes of Sheamus, Wade Barrett and Drew McIntyre were on the British Indies.

Big Show, Booker T, Rey Mysterio and William Regal were all in WCW before WWE if you want to go back that far.

Hell, Xavier Woods was in TNA.

I think the good thing about NXT now is that WWE can have the best of both worlds by giving people from other companies time to get used to their style alongside people WWE bring up themselves.

Because of the lack of any real competition, it's a very rare talent that can go straight from somewhere else right into WWE without going through development. Some of the very biggest TNA people probably qualify, like say Jeff Hardy or Sting, but other than that? Prince Devitt is rumoured to have been offered a contract with little to no NXT development.

Stephen Day
User avatar
Wrasslin' Fan
 
Posts: 35565
Likes: 610 posts
Liked in: 398 posts
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Canada
Title: Maple Leaf Ninja


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Stephen Day » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Punchy wrote:
There's loads of people in the WWE right now who made their name elsewhere first though.

Cesaro, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Evan Bourne, Seth Rollins came from ROH.

Dean Ambrose and Luke Harper were also popular on the Indies.

Internationally, Alberto Del Rio, El Torito and Sin Cara (both of them) were popular in Mexico, Yoshi Tatsu was somewhat known in Japan, and the likes of Sheamus, Wade Barrett and Drew McIntyre were on the British Indies.

Big Show, Booker T, Rey Mysterio and William Regal were all in WCW before WWE if you want to go back that far.

Hell, Xavier Woods was in TNA.

I think the good thing about NXT now is that WWE can have the best of both worlds by giving people from other companies time to get used to their style alongside people WWE bring up themselves.

Because of the lack of any real competition, it's a very rare talent that can go straight from somewhere else right into WWE without going through development. Some of the very biggest TNA people probably qualify, like say Jeff Hardy or Sting, but other than that? Prince Devitt is rumoured to have been offered a contract with little to no NXT development.


Like you said, most of those names were sent to WWE Developmental first though. That's what I mean, the last guy that the fed brought in that came right to the Fed without the thought the he had to be re-taught to wrestle the "WWE way" was Mistico (or Sin Cara as the Fed renamed him :smt011 ).

Over in New Japan, they'll bring in wrestlers from other companies without thinking they have to be re-taught anything. I mentioned Kota Ibushi, before New Japan recently signed him, he was a guy who wrestled for, and was trained by a company called DDT. DDT is company basically on the same level in Japan that ROH is over here. He's really good though and New Japan thought nothing of just bringing him in and putting him on their shows. On the big New Japan cards, there are usually one or two wrestlers who aren't New Japan regulars who are there representing other companies and there's no thought from New Japan that they have to be re-taught to wrestle New Japan's strong style.
Image

Thank you Troy for the sig

Punchy
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 34453
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 77 posts
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:27 am
Location: UK
Title: Shitlord


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Punchy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:25 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
Like you said, most of those names were sent to WWE Developmental first though. That's what I mean, the last guy that the fed brought in that came right to the Fed without the thought the he had to be re-taught to wrestle the "WWE way" was Mistico (or Sin Cara as the Fed renamed him :smt011 ).

Over in New Japan, they'll bring in wrestlers from other companies without thinking they have to be re-taught anything. I mentioned Kota Ibushi, before New Japan recently signed him, he was a guy who wrestled for, and was trained by a company called DDT. DDT is company basically on the same level in Japan that ROH is over here. He's really good though and New Japan thought nothing of just bringing him in and putting him on their shows. On the big New Japan cards, there are usually one or two wrestlers who aren't New Japan regulars who are there representing other companies and there's no thought from New Japan that they have to be re-taught to wrestle New Japan's strong style.


But isn't a good thing that they go through developmental? It didn't really work out for the original Sin Cara going straight in.

I don't mind them going through NXT first because NXT is on TV (or online) and is a good show.

Stephen Day
User avatar
Wrasslin' Fan
 
Posts: 35565
Likes: 610 posts
Liked in: 398 posts
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Canada
Title: Maple Leaf Ninja


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Stephen Day » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:36 pm

Punchy wrote:
But isn't a good thing that they go through developmental? It didn't really work out for the original Sin Cara going straight in.

I don't mind them going through NXT first because NXT is on TV (or online) and is a good show.


I don't think it's a good thing in the end to tell the truth. New Japan has no problem finding wrestlers who can just step in. I think a lot of guys in ROH, or other places are a lot more ready than you might think. If somebody can step right out of DDT and wrestle in New Japan, then there isn't any doubt in my mind that there are people who could step right out of ROH into WWE. WWE developmental sounds good on the surface, but the problem is that all of their wrestlers are taught, or re-taught, to wrestler in the same style. It tends to make a lot of the WWE's in ring talent, particularly in their mid-card, seem very generic -- at least to me. It's one of the big reasons why I've stopped watching the Fed.
Image

Thank you Troy for the sig

syxxpakk
User avatar
Wrasslin' Fan
 
Posts: 12625
Likes: 49 posts
Liked in: 111 posts
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:13 pm
Title: The Wrasslin' Fan


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby syxxpakk » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:37 pm

It depends. WWE has a distinct frame of match. Within the context of that frame, you can fit a variety of different approaches (i.e. Daniel Bryan is a different worker than Evan Bourne). But overall, the frame reminds the same match-to-match. You very rarely see a match that operates outside the framework, and when you do - the general reaction is "MOTYC" regardless of true quality It happened on Monday, for example. Cesaro vs Cena was a great match, but what really sets it a part is that it was different from the usual framework WWE matches followed.

That's basically what developmental is about. Teaching that framework. We can talk all day about how Sin Cara didn't work in WWE. But how come he was blowing minds weekly and being one of the top draws WORLDWIDE before he got to WWE? It's because he was allowed to do his thing, his way.

There's something to be said about homogenization, but there's also something to be said about learning how to work within the confines of structure. You can make valid arguments either way. To me, Sin Cara is the greatest example of the system failing. But then you also have Bryan Danielson, who might be the greatest example of the system working.
Image

When you're as good as Chael, you can only call out people worse than you.


@syxxpakk on the Twitter.

Stephen Day
User avatar
Wrasslin' Fan
 
Posts: 35565
Likes: 610 posts
Liked in: 398 posts
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Canada
Title: Maple Leaf Ninja


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Stephen Day » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:40 pm

syxxpakk wrote:It depends. WWE has a distinct frame of match. Within the context of that frame, you can fit a variety of different approaches (i.e. Daniel Bryan is a different worker than Evan Bourne). But overall, the frame reminds the same match-to-match. You very rarely see a match that operates outside the framework, and when you do - the general reaction is "MOTYC" regardless of true quality It happened on Monday, for example. Cesaro vs Cena was a great match, but what really sets it a part is that it was different from the usual framework WWE matches followed.

That's basically what developmental is about. Teaching that framework. We can talk all day about how Sin Cara didn't work in WWE. But how come he was blowing minds weekly and being one of the top draws WORLDWIDE before he got to WWE? It's because he was allowed to do his thing, his way.

There's something to be said about homogenization, but there's also something to be said about learning how to work within the confines of structure. You can make valid arguments either way. To me, Sin Cara is the greatest example of the system failing. But then you also have Bryan Danielson, who might be the greatest example of the system working.


I completely agree with you about Mistico.
Image

Thank you Troy for the sig

Punchy
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 34453
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 77 posts
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:27 am
Location: UK
Title: Shitlord


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Punchy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:42 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
I don't think it's a good thing in the end to tell the truth. New Japan has no problem finding wrestlers who can just step in. I think a lot of guys in ROH, or other places are a lot more ready than you might think. If somebody can step right out of DDT and wrestle in New Japan, then there isn't any doubt in my mind that there are people who could step right out of ROH into WWE. WWE developmental sounds good on the surface, but the problem is that all of their wrestlers are taught, or re-taught, to wrestler in the same style. It tends to make a lot of the WWE's in ring talent, particularly in their mid-card, seem very generic -- at least to me. It's one of the big reasons why I've stopped watching the Fed.


I dunno, I think there's plenty of variety when it comes to in-ring styles in WWE.

What NXT does best is allow people time to develop characters and gimmicks. Bray Wyatt initially debuted as the boring 'Husky Harris' in the WWE, but he went back down to NXT and was allowed to create a character that has become hugely popular.

I have no doubt that El Generico could have been dropped straight into Raw and do well in the ring, but being in NXT let him take his mask off and learn how to do promos properly rather than speak pidgin spanish in an environment that's less pressured than 15,000 baying fans.

WWE is about more than just in-ring style, it's about character, and that's what NXT is for.

Stephen Day
User avatar
Wrasslin' Fan
 
Posts: 35565
Likes: 610 posts
Liked in: 398 posts
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Canada
Title: Maple Leaf Ninja


Re: The Official Outhouse All Wrestling Thread!

Postby Stephen Day » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:47 pm

Punchy wrote:
I dunno, I think there's plenty of variety when it comes to in-ring styles in WWE.

What NXT does best is allow people time to develop characters and gimmicks. Bray Wyatt initially debuted as the boring 'Husky Harris' in the WWE, but he went back down to NXT and was allowed to create a character that has become hugely popular.

I have no doubt that El Generico could have been dropped straight into Raw and do well in the ring, but being in NXT let him take his mask off and learn how to do promos properly rather than speak pidgin spanish in an environment that's less pressured than 15,000 baying fans.

WWE is about more than just in-ring style, it's about character, and that's what NXT is for.


There's way more of a variety of styles when I watch New Japan though. I think Syxx is right in this case. The Fed does promote a framework that can work for some people. The problem is that it doesn't work for others, and I've found, for my part, that it really doesn't work that well for me as a viewer.
Image

Thank you Troy for the sig

leave a comment with facebook

PreviousNext

Return to The Asylum



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, MSN NewsBlogs and 42 guests

Advertisement