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Why Are Comics Geeky and Movies Aren't?

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Newtype

Mad Hatter

Postby Newtype » Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:57 pm

Seriously, this is something that's been bothering me for a very long time. Why is it that people can go and see all these superhero movies and then buy the blu-rays, dvds, and even t-shirts and other merchandising, and consider this normal, but buying the comics instantly makes you a geek or a nerd? Is it because that it's harder to get a hold of the comics? Although I'd argue that's not the case with the rise of internet shopping and digital comics. You can't really argue that "the comics are sillier" given that two of the most seen movies of the year featured a man dressing in the American flag and the other had a talking space-raccoon as a major character. Another popular movie this year was about a giant fucking lizard! The "comics are silly" excuse just doesn't fly anymore. And it can't be the cost since most people haven't ever tried to find a comic to buy, and therefore would not have seen how much it costs to buy one. Someone explain this to me, because it honestly confuses me.
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Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:01 pm

The fact comics have for the most part given up on getting a foothold in mainstream retail has a lot to do with it.
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Newtype

Mad Hatter

Postby Newtype » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:05 pm

Juan Cena wrote:The fact comics have for the most part given up on getting a foothold in mainstream retail has a lot to do with it.


Then why don't they try? I saw a few trades of the first volume of the Bendis Guardians in Walmart the other day, why don't they take it further then? I've seen the book section in Walmart, it's already 95% utter crap so there's no way adding a few trade paperbacks can lower its standards or anything.

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:49 pm

Newtype wrote:Seriously, this is something that's been bothering me for a very long time. Why is it that people can go and see all these superhero movies and then buy the blu-rays, dvds, and even t-shirts and other merchandising, and consider this normal, but buying the comics instantly makes you a geek or a nerd? Is it because that it's harder to get a hold of the comics? Although I'd argue that's not the case with the rise of internet shopping and digital comics. You can't really argue that "the comics are sillier" given that two of the most seen movies of the year featured a man dressing in the American flag and the other had a talking space-raccoon as a major character. Another popular movie this year was about a giant fucking lizard! The "comics are silly" excuse just doesn't fly anymore. And it can't be the cost since most people haven't ever tried to find a comic to buy, and therefore would not have seen how much it costs to buy one. Someone explain this to me, because it honestly confuses me.


Story related to this - 1989, Batman came out and folks went nuts for it and the comics, kind of. Some were total assholes for reasons that make a different story, but others were interesting in the whys and what they liked in comics. For most, it seems the more mainstream Batman and Detective Comics were seen as inaccessible to them while the Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight which had started, was perfect. The simple continuity, the obvious story count in issues made it more appealing. No convoluted continuity, just interesting Batman stories that were within the same tone as the film or better.

Honestly, all you're seeing are Bandwagoners. They're full of shit and always have been. They tend to make up the greatest numbers.
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Newtype

Mad Hatter

Postby Newtype » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:11 pm

The Old Doctor wrote:
Story related to this - 1989, Batman came out and folks went nuts for it and the comics, kind of. Some were total assholes for reasons that make a different story, but others were interesting in the whys and what they liked in comics. For most, it seems the more mainstream Batman and Detective Comics were seen as inaccessible to them while the Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight which had started, was perfect. The simple continuity, the obvious story count in issues made it more appealing. No convoluted continuity, just interesting Batman stories that were within the same tone as the film or better.

Honestly, all you're seeing are Bandwagoners. They're full of shit and always have been. They tend to make up the greatest numbers.


You make a good point, but that still doesn't explain everything. If they're just bandwagoners why wouldn't they also buy the comics?

I don't think continuity can be the issue either thanks to the internet. It also helps that most trades at least have like a brief recap or summary explaining the character and how they got where they are in the story. don't the single issues do that too? If they don't it's kind of stupid.

This whole thing seems kind of snobbish to me. It's kind of like this: "Yeah, I can't wait to see Avengers 2!! I'm going to the midnight premier and everything!! What's that? You read the comics? You're such a nerd."

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:33 pm

Newtype wrote:
You make a good point, but that still doesn't explain everything. If they're just bandwagoners why wouldn't they also buy the comics?

I don't think continuity can be the issue either thanks to the internet. It also helps that most trades at least have like a brief recap or summary explaining the character and how they got where they are in the story. don't the single issues do that too? If they don't it's kind of stupid.

This whole thing seems kind of snobbish to me. It's kind of like this: "Yeah, I can't wait to see Avengers 2!! I'm going to the midnight premier and everything!! What's that? You read the comics? You're such a nerd."


Investment cost. It would take time, money and effort, something they do not have a wish to spend. All they want is to seem hip and cool at that moment and well..

Trust me, years of reading folks on forums bitching about the continuities. Again, investment costs are too high for them. They want a fast satisfaction.

It is, and so are they. They are always in large numbers and the most shallow pile of shit you will encounter. They were the kids in high school that described themselves as the "cool" kids and would judge others. Basically you live the life they think it should be, then you're cool... unless they call you a poseur. They're shit, just ignore them.

Another story, back in the late 80/early 90s, I used to wear comic t-shirts out in public during the summer. Amazing the number of folks that would chase after me asking where I got the Ghost Rider shirts, Grimjack and Grendel ones. Hell, my ex took my old Grendel shirts... bitch.

Royal Nonesuch

Staff Writer

Postby Royal Nonesuch » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:01 pm

A movie is something you can just go to, watch, enjoy, talk about afterwards, and then move on. It's a singular event that anyone can participate in, but it's temporary. There's plenty of time to do other things with your life.

With comics, however, you have people who compulsively collect for years, decades even, and obsess over every inch of continuity, causing them to become socially inept, so they can't hold a conversation with anyone unless it's about which superhero can beat up which. Nobody wants to be around those people because they're awful. The worst ones are the ones who write for comics news sites or post on comics message boards. Being weirdly territorial and grousing about "bandwagon" fans doesn't help.

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:19 pm

Royal Nonesuch wrote:A movie is something you can just go to, watch, enjoy, talk about afterwards, and then move on. It's a singular event that anyone can participate in, but it's temporary. There's plenty of time to do other things with your life.

With comics, however, you have people who compulsively collect for years, decades even, and obsess over every inch of continuity, causing them to become socially inept, so they can't hold a conversation with anyone unless it's about which superhero can beat up which. Nobody wants to be around those people because they're awful. The worst ones are the ones who write for comics news sites or post on comics message boards. Being weirdly territorial and grousing about "bandwagon" fans doesn't help.



Now try again while noting he pointed to the ones that act and speak disparagingly to comics fans. :roll:

What you described is one group, he described the similar yet different group.

Also, you're full of shit. But then, following your own post... :P :lol:
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Kurosawa

Motherfucker from Hell

Postby Kurosawa » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:28 pm

Newtype wrote:
Then why don't they try? I saw a few trades of the first volume of the Bendis Guardians in Walmart the other day, why don't they take it further then? I've seen the book section in Walmart, it's already 95% utter crap so there's no way adding a few trade paperbacks can lower its standards or anything.


Money. They don't try to expand the profile of comics because they look to make the money off the movies. Now eventually, the movies will burn out, not soon, but eventually, and then the focus will go back to the comics...but the footprint is already so diminished, and retailers don't like handling periodicals of any sort...they're a pain in the ass.

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:30 pm

Here's another theory to ponder -

Back in the 80s, a friend of mine at the time suggested this theory in regards to anime and manga fans. It concerned which version fans tended to prefer more then others did. It was that it have mostly to do to which was the first encountered that had the positive reaction. Simply put, you saw the anime first before the manga, you would almost always prefer the anime. The same with if it was the manga were first. Also, note it was not consistent beyond a majority.

So here, you have folks who encountered the movie, liked it and cannot get into the comics or other media versions such as cartoons. An example would be with the Transformers. Some like the movies but have no interest in the comics nor the animated series. Another example is James Bond. Folks like the movies, but never have and never will read the novels.
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Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:44 pm

Stuff like that Spider-woman cover make me embarrassed that I ever read them to begin with. They are obviously made with their emotionally stinted shut in fans in mind and not in a manner that might attract a more mainstream audience.

Non Marvel/DC books don't seem to have much of a stigma to them. The Walking Dead trades are exceptionally popular.
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Newtype

Mad Hatter

Postby Newtype » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:44 pm

Royal Nonesuch wrote:With comics, however, you have people who compulsively collect for years, decades even, and obsess over every inch of continuity, causing them to become socially inept, so they can't hold a conversation with anyone unless it's about which superhero can beat up which. Nobody wants to be around those people because they're awful. The worst ones are the ones who write for comics news sites or post on comics message boards. Being weirdly territorial and grousing about "bandwagon" fans doesn't help.


Perhaps the problem is that people have gotten it into their heads that the only reason to buy comics is to collect them. I'd like to think that there are comic collectors and that there are also comic readers. The first group collects and holds onto them in the hopes that they'll be valuable one day and the latter buys them simply for entertainment. That's me. I only buy trade paperbacks because I don't want to have some priceless collection of comics, I want entertainment. I don't really think the medium through which a person is entertained matters. I find it baffling that between two mediums, comics and movies, presenting the same subject matter, one is considered geekier. To me, comics are no different in terms of entertainment than movies, videogames, books, or tv shows.
User avatar

Kurosawa

Motherfucker from Hell

Postby Kurosawa » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:51 pm

The Old Doctor wrote:Here's another theory to ponder -

Back in the 80s, a friend of mine at the time suggested this theory in regards to anime and manga fans. It concerned which version fans tended to prefer more then others did. It was that it have mostly to do to which was the first encountered that had the positive reaction. Simply put, you saw the anime first before the manga, you would almost always prefer the anime. The same with if it was the manga were first. Also, note it was not consistent beyond a majority.

So here, you have folks who encountered the movie, liked it and cannot get into the comics or other media versions such as cartoons. An example would be with the Transformers. Some like the movies but have no interest in the comics nor the animated series. Another example is James Bond. Folks like the movies, but never have and never will read the novels.


That's part of it too. Now other things, like how cluttered and thick the continuity is, that could all be fixed and simplified if they wanted to expand the potential readership. Modern comics are the way they are because they are marketed to a very limited audience and that audience likes the current format.

Also, geek/nerd culture in general is looked down on less than it once was. comics included. For one thing, bullying of all types is being looked at negatively more and more, as it should be. And there is more acceptance of a lot of different cultures. I had a good friend who was gay beaten into a coma that led to his death back in the 80's. Now same-sex marriage is well on it's way to being legal in many states and eventually will be legal everywhere. Things change, and sometimes they change for the better.

One thing I can say: if you love comics and superheroes, never feel ashamed of it. They're great, and they've brought a lot of joy to a lot of people. And like how a lot of scientists were inspired by Star Trek, there are people in law enforcement and the legal system that were inspired by superhero comics. Of course I wish modern comics were more upbeat, but meh...superhero comics will always be special to me.

Bond Hengbu

Postby Bond Hengbu » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:15 am

Newtype wrote:
Then why don't they try? I saw a few trades of the first volume of the Bendis Guardians in Walmart the other day, why don't they take it further then? I've seen the book section in Walmart, it's already 95% utter crap so there's no way adding a few trade paperbacks can lower its standards or anything.

I assume they have historical fiction. If they could put some historical comics next to those books, it would be really neat.
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Newtype

Mad Hatter

Postby Newtype » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:39 am

Bond Hengbu wrote:I assume they have historical fiction. If they could put some historical comics next to those books, it would be really neat.


But I'd imagine comics would be placed near the, I guess you'd call it entertainment fiction, whatever YA novel got the most recent movie. And that section is garbage, complete and utter garbage, except for the few books related to Tolkien, and those will probably be gone once the last Hobbit movie comes out.

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