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by **Chris** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:38 am

I've already got a bad taste in my mouth anticipating BSG tomorrow.. I have a horrible feeling. If this finale is bad, it will completely sour me on the entire series.

by **Benderbrau** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:40 am

Strict31 wrote:After watching the Last Frakking Special, I think you're right. That's pretty much excatly what Moore said, after all: "It's the characters, stupid" is what he decided when trying to write the final episode.

The problem is, they have spent so much time throwing the mythology at the audience, using shocks and surprises to continue to drive interest in the storyline. I mean, they can say, "It's the characters, stupid" all they want, but we're not the ones who created the hub-bub over the Final Five. That's solely part of story mythology.

So...I dunno...if they're planning on pulling a Sopranos or some shit for the ending, it's gonna come across as highly dissatisfying. I mean, it's possible to focus both on character and plot while telling a story. People have been doing it for centuries now.

Did anyone else want to scream "I TOLD YOU SO!" when RDM clearly admitted during the special that he completely pulled the final five idea outta his ass for no rhyme or reason?

by **TerriG** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:42 am

Benderbrau wrote:Did anyone else want to scream "I TOLD YOU SO!" when RDM clearly admitted during the special that he completely pulled the final five idea outta his ass for no rhyme or reason?

I knew that was the case all along, it's just nice to hear it from his own mouth.

by **Strict31** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:44 am

Also, the reason I said Star Trek is because it has a much, much longer history of fanwanking than BSG is ever likely to. And as one of those fans, I've found myself trying to explain lots of shit the writers couldn't be bothered to.

But since this thread is about TV shows, it leaves out the franchise with the greatest fanwank of all: Star Wars. There's so much fanwank that they actually started hiring fans to wank out officially. Every Expanded Universe product, be it a comic or a novel or a video game or a table top RPG...it's all canon fanwanking. It all comes from some fan trying to explain this or that, or elaborate on this and that. Star Wars has set up its own official outlet for fanfiction.

It differs from the fanwank from BSG or Trek, because when the Star Wars fans wank, they can get it published officially as canon.

by **b.lumpkin** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:45 am

Benderbrau wrote:Did anyone else want to scream "I TOLD YOU SO!" when RDM clearly admitted during the special that he completely pulled the final five idea outta his ass for no rhyme or reason?

he can admit that now
it was a bold move that worked

by **AaronW** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:46 am

Yeah but Star Wars fan wanking is just to expand on ultimately unnecessary items that were not that important to the plot of the Star Wars films. In BSG its to try and explain the galactic nebula sized plot holes.

by **Strict31** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:47 am

Benderbrau wrote:Did anyone else want to scream "I TOLD YOU SO!" when RDM clearly admitted during the special that he completely pulled the final five idea outta his ass for no rhyme or reason?

"Scream"? No. But I have pointed this out before...

by **Strict31** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:50 am

Aaron_W wrote:Yeah but Star Wars fan wanking is just to expand on ultimately unnecessary items that were not that important to the plot of the Star Wars films. In BSG its to try and explain the galactic nebula sized plot holes.

As much of a fan of Star Wars that I am, I feel it would be disingenuous of me not to admit that there are some plot holes in that franchise. And that, aside from plotholes, there are simply tremendous flaws in storytelling and characterization, in which Lucas seems almost determined to defy all attempts to rationalize.

by **Benderbrau** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:51 am

Strict31 wrote:Also, the reason I said Star Trek is because it has a much, much longer history of fanwanking than BSG is ever likely to. And as one of those fans, I've found myself trying to explain lots of shit the writers couldn't be bothered to.

But since this thread is about TV shows, it leaves out the franchise with the greatest fanwank of all: Star Wars. There's so much fanwank that they actually started hiring fans to wank out officially. Every Expanded Universe product, be it a comic or a novel or a video game or a table top RPG...it's all canon fanwanking. It all comes from some fan trying to explain this or that, or elaborate on this and that. Star Wars has set up its own official outlet for fanfiction.

It differs from the fanwank from BSG or Trek, because when the Star Wars fans wank, they can get it published officially as canon.

I find Star Trek less offensive in this area then X-Files or BSG. Star Trek had a dedicated department built just to insure continuity. Sure sometimes they failed but they tried REALLY hard to hold it together. BSG? They don't even pretend to act like they care that people know that they have no fucking idea what they're writing. X-Files was kinda like that too. Carter and his group created so many mysteries that they could never resolve them. But they knew each new one created more ratings so they kept doing it. Star Wars is pretty bad but you're right they're fanwank is mostly protected by Lucas because he legitimizes it.

by **AaronW** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:51 am

Strict31 wrote:As much of a fan of Star Wars that I am, I feel it would be disingenuous of me not to admit that there are some plot holes in that franchise. And that, aside from plotholes, there are simply tremendous flaws in storytelling and characterization, in which Lucas seems almost determined to defy all attempts to rationalize.

Lucas' storytelling is flawless. FLAWLESS!!!

by **Benderbrau** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:53 am

barrylincoln wrote:he can admit that now
it was a bold move that worked

It worked in the short term to draw(trick?) more viewers but in the long run I don't think this show will stay in the collective consciousness as anything close to being considered "quality".

by ****** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:54 am

TerriG wrote:I knew that was the case all along, it's just nice to hear it from his own mouth.

You should listen to the podcast commentaries. He's been pretty candid about that kind of stuff for a while.

by **Benderbrau** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:54 am

Strict31 wrote:As much of a fan of Star Wars that I am, I feel it would be disingenuous of me not to admit that there are some plot holes in that franchise. And that, aside from plotholes, there are simply tremendous flaws in storytelling and characterization, in which Lucas seems almost determined to defy all attempts to rationalize.

IMHO: mostly between the trilogy and the prequels.