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Postby Chris » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:10 am

Decent finale.

Some really great moments. But overall, shoddy writing, IMO.

Strict basically already said all the gripes I had with it.

But like he said.. from a character standpoint, excellent finale. Story-wise.. eh.
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Postby Crump » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:19 am

Fun finale. Character standpoint: excellent.

Details: not so great.
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Postby Benderbrau » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:20 am

Not sure if anyone posted this yet. There are too man BSG threads to dig through but I found this on Discover Magazine.com and found it to be quite illuminating:
Battlestar Galactica: Watched The Finale? Still Got Questions? We’ve Got Answers!

Ron Moore: Daniel is definitely a rabbit hole. It was an unintentional rabbit hole, to be honest. I was kind of surprised when I started picking up [that] speculation online.

For those of you who don’t know, there was a deep part of the cylon backstory that had to do with one of the cylons that was created by the final five [called Daniel. Daniel] was later sort of aborted by Cavill… it was always intended just to be sort of an interesting bit of backstory about Cavill and his jealously. A Cain and Abel sort of allegory. Then people really started grabbing on to it and seizing on it as some major part of the mythology. In couple of interviews and in the last podcast I tried to go out of my way to say “look, don’t spend too much time and energy on this particular theory,” because it was never intended to be that major a piece of the mythology.

David Eick: It’s like Boxey in that way!

Moore: Kara is what you want her to be. It’s easy to put the label on her of “angel” or “messenger of God” or something like that. Kara Thrace died and was resurrected and came back and took the people to their final end. That was her role, her destiny in the show… We debated back and forth in the writers’ room about giving it more clarity and saying definitively what she is. We decided that the more you try to put a name on it, the less interesting it became, and we just decided this was the most interesting way for her to go out, with her just disappearing and [leave people wondering exactly what she was].

We see Galactica jump away from the Colony. Are we to assume there are a lot of pissed off Cavills out there still, or were they destroyed?

Moore: The final [cut] came out a little less clear on that than I intended…. It was scripted and the idea was that when Racetrack hits the nukes—the nukes come in and smack into the colony—it takes the colony out of the stream that was swirling around the singularity and [the colony] fell in and was destroyed. I think as we went through the [editing process], when we kept cutting frames and doing this and that, one of the things that became less apparent was that the colony was doomed. The intention was that everyone who was aboard the colony would perish.

At what point did you decide to make it Earth-of-the-past that we were going to wind up on, and what was your reason for that?

Moore: We decided that a couple of years ago. I don’t think we ever really had a version of the show where we [were] in the future or in the present, those didn’t seem as interesting. In the early [development of the show], we would talk about the fact that we would see a lot of contemporary things in the show from language to wardrobe to all kinds of production design details. That only made sense to us in terms of a lot of things that we see in the show and we feel are taken from our contemporary world are actually theirs to begin with. [They] somehow spread down through eons and came to us through the collective unconsciousness. Or, more directly, [as when] Lee said we would give them the better part of ourselves.

Eick: There was a time when we were talking about “they land, and its Pterodactyls and Tyrannosaurus Rex.” But the idea that they were part of the genus of humankind seemed like the right—and more affordable!—way to do that.

Moore: We also had this image of Six walking through Times Square that we came up with long ago.

Who attacked the original Earth?

Moore: The backstory of the original Earth was supposed to be that the 13th tribe of cylons came to that world, started over and essentially destroyed themselves. There was some internecine warfare that occurred among the cylons themselves, which was another repetition in the cycle of “all of this has happened before and all will happen again.” Even they, who were the rebels that split off, [had] enough of humanity in them as cylons that they eventually destroyed themselves.

Why did Cavill decide to kill himself?

Moore: Cavill killing himself actually came from Dean Stockwell [the actor who played Cavill]. As scripted in that final climatic CIC battle, Tigh was going to grab Cavill and fling him over the edge of the upper level and he was going to fall to his death. Dean called me and said “y’know, I just really think that, in that moment, Cavill would realize the jig is up and it’s all hopeless, and he should just put a gun in his mouth and shoot himself.” And I said: “…Okay!”

For the actors, what was the last scene that you filmed and what was the mood like on the set?

Mary McDonnell: My last scene was Laura Roslin’s last moment in the Raptor. That was about 3:45 am on a very small set. I think I was one of the first people to wrap—she died and we all hugged, and my son and I went to the airport and went back to LA… It happened quickly, it was set to happen a week later and the schedule was changed, so suddenly it was over, it was really interesting, very much like the show for me.

Edward James Olmos: My last day was when I was on the mountainside and it was the last moment that I was on camera. It was quite an experience all the way around, that moment in time. I think everybody had a real easy time [acting] with the emotions that we had at the very end, it’s pretty honest all the way around. The last time that I saw Starbuck and Lee was the last scene where I saw them [in the show]. Pretty intense.

McDonnell: But we’re here, and we’re alive! I wore bright blue so you would know I was alive.

With the use of “All Along The Watchtower,” are you trying to get at some notion that there is some universal consciousness that goes back as far as the human/cylon races’ arrival?

Moore: The notion is sort of how you posited it. The music, the lyrics, the composition, is divine, eternal, it’s something that lives in the collective unconsciousness of everyone in the show and all of us today. It’s a musical theme that repeats itself and crops up in unexpected places. Different people hear it and pluck it out of the ether and write songs. It’s a connection of the divine and the mortal. Music is something that people literally catch out of the air and can’t really define exactly how they composed it. [So] here is a song that transcends many eons and many different people and cultures and the stars, and was ultimately reinvented by one Mr. Bob Dylan here on Earth.

Eick: It was a simple way, I thought, to communicate clearly the idea [the show is not set in the future.] That this is a story about a culture that gave birth to ours. There was an episode in season one in which Helo and Sharon are running for their lives. They hole up in a diner and there’s a cylon centurion cornering them. For the longest time we planned to have an old jukebox in the diner that would play “Yesterday”, or whatever we could afford—

Moore: Not “Yesterday.”

Eick: —Probably not “Yesterday.” Something from The Guess Who perhaps. I think we felt it was too soon. It would confuse things and…people would just be thrown by it, but we were thinking about it that far back, that music would be a great way to say to the audience that it follows [a] cyclical theme of “this has all happened before and will happen again.” This culture is the one that gave birth to ours, so that all the colloquialisms and all the slang that you hear and the behavior that is idiosyncratic—playing cards or whatever—we get that from them, not the other way around.

There’s been a lot of talk about how setting an end date for a scripted serial helps to recharge it. Did you find that true?

Moore: In terms of the writers’ room it certainly focused us. We made the decision that fourth season was going to be the last season once we got to the end of the third season. We had writers’ retreats, and we had dedicated sessions to say “this is the end, what’s the last story, what’s the final arc?” It really made everybody very focused and very specific about exactly how this was going to line up. Part of the motivation to make it the final season was that we didn’t want to get to the place where we felt like the ship was keeling over and we were having a problem. We all instinctively felt that the show had the reached the third act by the time the show got to the end of that third season.

Eick: Going back a year before that, Ron and I sat down for our biannual “what the hell do we do this year meeting?” Heading into season three there was a real sense of creative frustration. We wanted to expand the show and … find a new ways [of] story telling. [So season three] became what we call the cylon-centric season. It’s when we introduced the base ship, it’s when we introduced some new cylons. It gave the show life, but after a year of that, when we sat down heading into season four, it was a much shorter conversation. It was basically “okay, what if we end it? What if we just decide it’s over?” Let’s call this…the dovetailing season. If we know that going in, how would that inform story telling decisions?” So it was a very early decision. I remember from my perspective going into that 4th season there was a different energy on the set. There was tremendous focus and concentration that I was getting from the entire ensemble.

McDonnell: Part of what was extraordinary about that is as you are able to view [the end approaching] you can then kick into gear and plot your finish. What that ends up doing is simplifying things for you. You know where your head is and you can let go in many moments were you probably would have worked very hard [before, but] you didn’t need to. So a lot of us felt a kind of simplification. A kind of humility that came over us and that gives you a lot of energy. You just know where you are going and you are proud to be a part of it. And you let go. That was the experience I think many of us had.

Olmos: We had a meeting at the very beginning of the show and we all, 13 of us, sat down in my trailer—

McDonnell: He had the biggest trailer.

Omos: —it was beautiful! And we sat down as we discussed the possibilities. I talked to them about making sure we understood that if, by chance, this situation was to move forward and we were to do this as a series, and this was to go on to for one year, four years, ten years, who knows, that we had to understand what that meant… I just knew that…the story would have a beginning, a middle and an end, and that we had to pace ourselves.

So at the end of the third season, beginning of fourth season, we had a meeting, and we were told then that this was going to be the final season. Everybody got very depressed…I don’t think any of the actors wanted to stop the show… But we had hit the end, we were going into the fourth and final act. And we knew it. So we talked about the very first time we ever got together, and we said it’s like a marathon. In marathon you have to start off fast, really really intensely strong, your first mile has to extraordinary. Then the next 24 miles have to be consistent…. And then the last mile has to be the strongest mile that you’ve run the whole 26 miles…To win it, your final mile has to be your strongest mile… So we knew where we where coming from, we knew where we were, and now we knew where were going… I think that led to some of our strongest performances.

In the last scene, are “Six” and “Baltar” angels or demons?

Moore: I think they’re both. We never try to name exactly what the “Head” characters are—we called them “Head Baltar” and “Head Six” all throughout the show, internally. We never really looked at them as angels or demons because they seemed to periodically say evil things and good things, they tended to save people and they tended to damn people. There was this sense that they worked in service of something else. You could say “a higher power” or you could say “another power,” [but] they were in service to something else that was guiding and helping, sometimes obstructing, and sometimes tempting the people on the show. The idea at the very end was that whatever they are in service to continues and is eternal and is always around. And they too are still around…and with all of us who are the children of Hera. They continue to walk among us and watch, and at some point they may or may not intercede at a key moment.

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Postby Strict31 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:34 am

Bender, I couldn't even finish that. Not because it was too long, but because it was just frustrating to read their explanations and shit.

There were already humans on the fucking planet, for fuck's sake. They were sufficiently modern enough that they were genetically compatible with humans. They walked upright.

Modern humans had already evolved on the planet.

Angel-Baltar and Angel-Six saying Hera was Eve is just so much horseshit. Hera would need a jaw that's a hell of a lot more prominent to be genetic-Eve.

And the song...I guess this eternal, divine composition just fell right the fuck out of the consciousness of man for 150,000 years and only showed up again when Bob Dylan thought he was writing it.

I mean, I get that there's fiction in the whole concept of Sci-Fi, but does it need to make the science look quite so stupid?

Eh...whatever. I hope RDM puts a little bit more thought into his The Thing prequel than "God did it, bitches."
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Postby Benderbrau » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:03 am

Strict31 wrote:Bender, I couldn't even finish that. Not because it was too long, but because it was just frustrating to read their explanations and shit.

There were already humans on the fucking planet, for fuck's sake. They were sufficiently modern enough that they were genetically compatible with humans. They walked upright.

Modern humans had already evolved on the planet.

Angel-Baltar and Angel-Six saying Hera was Eve is just so much horseshit. Hera would need a jaw that's a hell of a lot more prominent to be genetic-Eve.

And the song...I guess this eternal, divine composition just fell right the fuck out of the consciousness of man for 150,000 years and only showed up again when Bob Dylan thought he was writing it.

I mean, I get that there's fiction in the whole concept of Sci-Fi, but does it need to make the science look quite so stupid?

Eh...whatever. I hope RDM puts a little bit more thought into his The Thing prequel than "God did it, bitches."

No argument here. The fact that the interviewer even had all these questions should be an indication about how confusing and vague the whole storyline turned into.
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Postby David Bird » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:45 am

Strict31 wrote:A minor question:

when Adama is taking the lie detector test,, they ask if he's a cylon. Okay, so, is that like, establishing a baseline or whatever the terminology is? The dialogue the examiner gave didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

But I thought, it couldn't be anything else because they didn't know about Skin jobs back then, did they?


Almost one here so I am off to bad, but was't one of the people administering the test a Cylon?

Better ending than I expected but I think the show's internal incoherence may hurt it in the long run. Future viewers are going to have questions and they will quickly learn there aren't any answers.

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Well Done, RDM! Bravo!!

Postby Nightfly » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:44 am

Remarkably satisfying finale. Probably the most satisfying since All Good Things.

I regret not having enough faith in RDM to've added a more than satisfied option to my poll (about expected satisfaction levels).

Based on the strength of the finale I think I'll be giving Caprica a chance afterall.

10/10
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Postby avengingtitan » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:15 am

cyphon wrote:I got a little misty a couple of times.
So did I when Sam and Laura died.

I was happy that Torri finally got what was coming to her.

I'm proud that Baltar finally manned up and all but I still kinda wish he had taken a bullet.

Galactica being the opera house was a little surprising. I guess I should have seen it coming.

Overall I think it was one of the best series finales I've seen in a long time.

I cant wait for Caprica.

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Postby superfictious » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:21 am

As a standalone episode, it was pretty entertaining, if not a bit toooooooooo drawn out and a bit too Spielberg's AI at the end.

But in the context of the entire series...wtf? There were soooo many inconsistencies. I mean, was Starbuck just in everyone's head like Head Six and Head Baltar? Who's this "It" God? If this has happened before and has happened again, is it possible that Head Baltar and Head Six are what previous incarnations of evolved Centurians eventually become? Where does Daniel fit into all of this? Two Earths?!? What the fuck happened to Chief's son? Does Hera become that much of a ho that she helps populate the entire planet?

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Postby cyphon » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:30 am

The one thought that stuck in my head after watching the show was "Thank god they didn't give us the Voyager ending".
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Postby avengingtitan » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:30 am

BK wrote: What the fuck happened to Chief's son? ?


How did you miss that? It was never his son. A few episodes back it was revealed that it was Hotdogs kid. He banged Calley before Chief got there on New Caprica.

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Postby superfictious » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:32 am

avengingtitan wrote:How did you miss that? It was never his son. A few episodes back it was revealed that it was Hotdogs kid. He banged Calley before Chief got there on New Caprica.


No wonder Chief had anger issues. :P

I will say this, though. The finale was a lot better than most shows would've had. I guess I've just been contaminated by what I'll refer to as Strict Logicism.

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Postby avengingtitan » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:38 am

BK wrote:No wonder Chief had anger issues. :P

I will say this, though. The finale was a lot better than most shows would've had. I guess I've just been contaminated by what I'll refer to as Strict Logicism.
I'm just glad he killed Torri. :-D Oh and I laughed when he left for his personal country of Scotland. :-D

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Postby superfictious » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:43 am

avengingtitan wrote:I'm just glad he killed Torri. :-D Oh and I laughed when he left for his personal country of Scotland. :-D


The sounds of her neck snapping and Cavil getting shot were a double whammy of greatness.

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Postby Jonathan » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:48 am

BK wrote:As a standalone episode, it was pretty entertaining, if not a bit toooooooooo drawn out and a bit too Spielberg's AI at the end.

But in the context of the entire series...wtf? There were soooo many inconsistencies. I mean, was Starbuck just in everyone's head like Head Six and Head Baltar? Who's this "It" God? If this has happened before and has happened again, is it possible that Head Baltar and Head Six are what previous incarnations of evolved Centurians eventually become? Where does Daniel fit into all of this? Two Earths?!? What the fuck happened to Chief's son? Does Hera become that much of a ho that she helps populate the entire planet?


Chief's son Nicky was really Hotdog's. Chief gave Nicky to him 4 episodes or so ago.

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