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Justice League Review

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zryson

Fagorstorm

Postby zryson » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:43 am

achilles wrote:
And YET, they not only went along with their plan after BvS and SS, but they actually HIRED Snyder again for League. They don't seem to learn as much as they seem to get steamrolled, wake up blearily in the street after, and conclude that maybe instead of stopping all the drinking, maybe they should double down and drink MORE, and also perhaps put a few umbrellas in their next movie, because, that sounded good when they were drunk.

The point it, odds are they will learns all the WRONG lessons from this, and any action they take will make it worse.


In some ways I am glad Warner Bros stuck with Snyder because I wanted him to complete his vision even if the guy is a terrible director and its cost Warner Bros millions of dollars. So now Warner Bros has a ruined DC Universe that audiences have loudly rejected. No doubt it will take Warner Bros the entire year before Aquaman to figure out how it all went so wrong as they try and salvage Momoa's Aquaman which has not received a good lead in from Justice League at all.

zryson

Fagorstorm

Postby zryson » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:51 am

achilles wrote:
I'm guessing at least SOME heads will have to roll over this. Tsukihara is the likely candidate, though I could hope for Johns as well, but that aint happening.


The CEO of Warner Bros was really pissed at the damage to the DC brand after Batman v Superman. Despite that movie tanking badly, some fans stupidly said nope, that movie is awesome, etc etc. Well the damage was real and you're seeing it played out with Justice League which has caused even more damage to the DC brand. Imagine a movie with the best DC has to offer, and it can only pull in $93.8 million dollars on its opening weekend. Its just a really low number and speaks volumes about how little the DC Universe is resonating with a wide audience. As for the CEO, it was his mandate that the movie be under two hours. So his head is definitely on the chopping block.
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Beast In Show

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby Beast In Show » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:52 am

"No matter who deserves blame, the end result is that Justice League became a victim of a reactionary, clickbait media culture that immediately pounced on the notion that the film was so terrible that Time Warner Inc. was pressuring one of its companies to hide the film’s critical consensus from the public. Never mind that A Bad Moms Christmas got the same treatment and never mind that WB’s big movie looked noticeably worse because of the manufactured controversy. Fair or not, Warner Bros. Justice League got screwed by Rotten Tomatoes via a decision that WB played no part in, as well as the clickbait media that happily played along in presuming the worst."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/11/21/box-office-how-rotten-tomatoes-screwed-over-justice-league/#5de9b037423d

:smt011

zryson

Fagorstorm

Postby zryson » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:16 am

Beast In Show wrote:"No matter who deserves blame, the end result is that Justice League became a victim of a reactionary, clickbait media culture that immediately pounced on the notion that the film was so terrible that Time Warner Inc. was pressuring one of its companies to hide the film’s critical consensus from the public. Never mind that A Bad Moms Christmas got the same treatment and never mind that WB’s big movie looked noticeably worse because of the manufactured controversy. Fair or not, Warner Bros. Justice League got screwed by Rotten Tomatoes via a decision that WB played no part in, as well as the clickbait media that happily played along in presuming the worst."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/11/21/box-office-how-rotten-tomatoes-screwed-over-justice-league/#5de9b037423d

:smt011


There are plenty of people at Warner Bros to blame for the massive failure of Justice League. The first being Zack Snyder who was clearly out of his element and who the studio should have parted with a long time ago. The second is CEO Kevin Tsujihara. Still positive change happens after massive failure, so the DC future is bright even if the present is not.

zryson

Fagorstorm

Postby zryson » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:24 am

Justice League, Rotten Tomatoes, and DC Fans' Persecution Complex
https://www.wired.com/story/justice-lea ... toes-fans/
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Beast In Show

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby Beast In Show » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:54 am

zryson wrote:Justice League, Rotten Tomatoes, and DC Fans' Persecution Complex
https://www.wired.com/story/justice-lea ... toes-fans/


“...Some days a 2.5 out of 5 out of a particular critic might be fresh, and with a different movie might be a rotten, and that’s OK with us,” Atchity says...

...Disney famously manages its filmmaking processes,hard. Warner Brothers famously gives its directors lots of space—good move when they’re Christopher Nolan or Patty Jenkins, maybe less so with some others. Both approaches yield specific kinds of movies, but it’s the former that seems to find favor with Rotten Tomatoes...


https://www.wired.com/story/is-rotten-tomatoes-ruining-movies/
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Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:39 am

Disney manages is directors hard?

That isn't true according to James Gunn or Taiki Waiti.
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Spacedog

Great Scott!!!

Postby Spacedog » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:50 am

The proper development of Superman before expanding the DC shared universe should have been a top priority for WB since day one. In many ways, he's the soul of the DCU. Considering the disdainful and equivocate way he was portrayed in BvS, it's no wonder that their shared universe is in such a fucked up state.

Get your Superman right, WB/DC motherfuckers. That's the first step to solve this unbelievable fucking mess you guys have created around your intellectual properties.
Image
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achilles

Silly French Man

Postby achilles » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:21 am

zryson wrote:
There are plenty of people at Warner Bros to blame for the massive failure of Justice League. The first being Zack Snyder who was clearly out of his element and who the studio should have parted with a long time ago. The second is CEO Kevin Tsujihara. Still positive change happens after massive failure, so the DC future is bright even if the present is not.


I would include Johns, and also Didio, though in the latter case not directly. But Johns is the architect of the DCU, and thus the DCEU for the past over a decade. Every bad idea he had was carried on and filtered into not only the DCEU, but also DC live action TV and their animated products as of late. From the fear bug in Green Lantern, to his overall love for the Snyder tone of presenting the comics. You know where we all saw Snyder's grand vision for DC first? In DC, done by Johns. In fact, I'd argue that he's arguably the most important person behind the decline and fall of DC and WB's DC product. Didio as well in that was was and remains an early enabler and cheerleader for Johns, who shared his vision, but he just hasn't been as important in pushing it over to WB.
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Jack Charlemagne

rubber spoon

Postby Jack Charlemagne » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:39 am

Spacedog wrote:The proper development of Superman before expanding the DC shared universe should have been a top priority for WB since day one. In many ways, he's the soul of the DCU. Considering the disdainful and equivocate way he was portrayed in BvS, it's no wonder that their shared universe is in such a fucked up state.

Get your Superman right, WB/DC motherfuckers. That's the first step to solve this unbelievable fucking mess you guys have created around your intellectual properties.
Image


Cavill's Superman is the most American Superman. The public are told Supes/America are inspiring greatness while they both proactively do quite the opposite, generally leaving death and destruction in their wake. They want that label without any of the effort. There's not a quick answer to "How is this Supes heroic?", just as there's no quick reply to "When exactly was America great other than undoing laws which should never have been written in the first place?" It's like when people were ragging on the comics writer Ales Kot for apparently wanting to be taken as a contemporary of Moore/Morrison/Ellis but without the decades of work that earned Moore/Morrison/Ellis their places in notoriety. I'm sure we should presume between the end of MoS and start of BvS that Supes likely had a bunch of offscreen adventures, but how can audiences be expected to presume he was accomplishing anything positive there when for so much of his onscreen adventures he has not?
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HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:53 am

Jack Charlemagne wrote:
Cavill's Superman is the most American Superman. The public are told Supes/America are inspiring greatness while they both proactively do quite the opposite, generally leaving death and destruction in their wake. They want that label without any of the effort. There's not a quick answer to "How is this Supes heroic?", just as there's no quick reply to "When exactly was America great other than undoing laws which should never have been written in the first place?" It's like when people were ragging on the comics writer Ales Kot for apparently wanting to be taken as a contemporary of Moore/Morrison/Ellis but without the decades of work that earned Moore/Morrison/Ellis their places in notoriety. I'm sure we should presume between the end of MoS and start of BvS that Supes likely had a bunch of offscreen adventures, but how can audiences be expected to presume he was accomplishing anything positive there when for so much of his onscreen adventures he has not?


Yeah, it was weird how the world descended into darkness after Superman's death, even though he wasn't in the public eye for that long...
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Jack Charlemagne

rubber spoon

Postby Jack Charlemagne » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:33 am

HNutz wrote:
Yeah, it was weird how the world descended into darkness after Superman's death, even though he wasn't in the public eye for that long...


It's where the years and years of continuity being seen as baggage kinda shoots DC/WB in the foot, because dropping the mountains of details to compress a story also cuts out the mountains of examples for how he won the public's imagination and admiration. They even skip the courtship with Lois, from "So hey you're from space but you don't look like an alien LOL" to "Hey baby lemme scrub your other side in this here tub in the restroom of the place where we live together as (super)man and wife".
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cbikle

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby cbikle » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:37 am

Beast In Show wrote:
What they hated about BvS and MoS isn't JL. The characterization is pitch perfect. Sure Barry is grafted with Wally/Bart/Peter Parker qualities but that's for narrative purposes and it works.


It's actually a very, very different take on the Barry Allen from the comics, but I was OK with it, but diehard Flash-purists may not be. From what I understand, test audiences liked Ezra Miller in the role (same for Momoa, also a very, very different Aquaman), but not sure how important it is to be the most popular character in a movie that flopped.

It never drags, great action sequences and Superman kicks so much ass in all the best ways. Cavill is so good, it's a shame Snyder couldn't get that characterization to the screen sooner.


I would agree and I really liked how Cavill interacted with the rest of the JL towards the end of the movie.

Justice League is a flawed movie, but I think that at the end, they finally were on the road to getting it right.

Sadly, may be a case of too little, too late.
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HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:57 am

Also... the electricity that surrounds Barry (not "Flash") is there whenever he uses superspeed... except in the police station?
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cbikle

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby cbikle » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:05 am

Beast In Show wrote:
Years ago during the triangle era, Darkseid secretly supplied Intergang with weapons and tech...


That actually started waaay back in the early 70's Superman/Jimmy Olsen stories.

Darkseid was also behind the formation of the Secret Society Of Super-Villains, using the Funky Flashman as his organizer/manager for the team.

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