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Justice League Review

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Beast In Show

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby Beast In Show » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:16 pm

Johnnie Torch wrote:For the director's cut Donner had to use whatever footage was in the can. He was fired before he filmed footage of the Kryptonian trio getting arrested. All he had was blink and you'll miss it footage from Hackman's scene of Lex getting arrested.

At the end of the day, he used the original turning back the world scene-again- because A) it was footage HE shot, and the point of his cut was using as much footage of HIS as possible.

And B) It was the ending as originally intended, before he was fired. Obviously, the ending to II would change after using the original ending in part One had he not been fired.

I shouldn't have to go over this again since A) You already know this & B) It's been discussed ad nausium. :P


We're going to continue to go over this until you admit you're wrong. :P

You falsely state that Donner wasnt allowed to use the arctic police scene in his director's cut because Lester shot that scene and yet Hackman's presence refutes your claim.

Hackman refused to return to production after the Salkinds fired Donner, so anytime you see Luthor on screen, Donner shot it. Donner shot the arctic police scene and the studio deleted it for theatrical release because it was 1980 and bad guys who humiliate the White House and the office of the president need to be executed.

Donner had a chance to insert that scene in his cut, but he didn't. 'Cause in 2006, conquering the White House and killing troops gleefully was a capital offense, even if it's mitigated by time travel shenanigans.

The fact that the scene aired once on ABC supports my argument rather than yours. The network obviously felt it was necessary to insert to assure parents and children that Superman doesn't kill because the theatrical release clearly depicts otherwise.

zryson

Fagorstorm

Postby zryson » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:19 pm

Beast In Show wrote:
We're going to continue to go over this until you admit you're wrong.


Image
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HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:15 am

Beast In Show wrote:
Go watch the Donner Cut again. I'll wait...

MoS earned an A- cinemascore, was the second highest grossing superhero reboot, outperformed every phase 1 Marvel film, was the 3rd highest selling Blu-ray that year (top selling superhero blu-ray), and it's 19/50 of the all time top selling blu rays. MoS scored 7.1 on IMDB with 89% audience score compared to StM 7.3 with 83% audience score. Moviegoers loved it.

Remember Carter's speech from Civil War?

Now move... :P


MoS pulled in less money than a movie about a talking raccoon and a tree man.

It's on Rotten Tomatoes with a 55% score with the critics and a 75% score with the viewers.

It's 7.1 out of 10 (55 Metascore) on IMDB. It's behind Iron Man, Ant-Man,
Doctor Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy, along with many of the sequels.

Superman the Movie had a higher score.
User avatar

uz000

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby uz000 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:26 am

zryson wrote:I hear from credible financial sources who are privy to Justice League‘s budget that if the film clears $700M-$750M global, after ancillaries, it would profit, but a breakeven scenario exists in the high $600M global B.O. range which is where this Snyder opus is bound to final.

https://deadline.com/2017/11/justice-le ... 202211094/


Do you really have a source who is privy to WB financial details? Is it the same source that said Star Trek Discovery wasn't going to get renewed for season 2?

It has only come out in the last few weeks that total filming budget was 300m. Most films have 1.5 multiplier for marketing, even if it has 2 times multiplier ( which seems unlikely to me) it already went past 600m.

Also the link you posted has nothing to do with how much the film cost or how much it needs to make to break even.

As usual you are posting nonsense.
User avatar

uz000

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby uz000 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:31 am

HNutz wrote:
MoS pulled in less money than a movie about a talking raccoon and a tree man.

.


To be fair only Avengers, Avengers 2 and Civil War have made more money than a movie about a talking raccoon and a tree man. Possibly Thor Ragnarok will make more than GOTG as well, but the majority of marvel films made less money than a movie about a talking raccoon and a tree man.

zryson

Fagorstorm

Postby zryson » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:50 am

uz000 wrote:
Do you really have a source who is privy to WB financial details? Is it the same source that said Star Trek Discovery wasn't going to get renewed for season 2?

It has only come out in the last few weeks that total filming budget was 300m. Most films have 1.5 multiplier for marketing, even if it has 2 times multiplier ( which seems unlikely to me) it already went past 600m.

Also the link you posted has nothing to do with how much the film cost or how much it needs to make to break even.



Justice League is both a creative and financial disappointment. Even more so since the box numbers are so low. Warner Bros did not spend $300 million just on production to have the movie make so little and there have been articles about how much the film cost, the drama behind the scenes and how much it needs to make to break even.

zryson

Fagorstorm

Postby zryson » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:54 am

Warner Bros.' Justice League may end up the biggest-grossing "flop" of all time by the end, but it's not giving up without a fight. The Zack Snyder/Joss Whedon superhero sequel earned $2.545 million (-44%) on its fourth Friday for a likely $9.6m (-42%) fourth weekend and $212.1m 24-day total. That fourth-weekend hold is comparable to Man of Steel (-45%), Suicide Squad (-41%) and Wonder Woman (-39%), while it's still ahead of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them in terms of holds and raw numbers. Had this movie opened bigger, these legs would be exactly what WB was hoping for when it slotted the Super Friends movie in the pre-Thanksgiving slot.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmende ... 67c85a40f8

Warner Bros. Faces A Possible $50M To $100M Loss On 'Justice League'
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/20 ... 49f8525d8b
User avatar

Spacedog

Great Scott!!!

Postby Spacedog » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:38 am

HNutz wrote:
MoS pulled in less money than a movie about a talking raccoon and a tree man.

It's on Rotten Tomatoes with a 55% score with the critics and a 75% score with the viewers.

It's 7.1 out of 10 (55 Metascore) on IMDB. It's behind Iron Man, Ant-Man,
Doctor Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy, along with many of the sequels.

Superman the Movie had a higher score.

This situation is ridiculous. If WB/DC had done their work correctly, we wouldn't be comparing Superman with any other intellectual property from Marvel or DC.

To a certain extent, Snyder's arrogance proved to be his downfall. I think almost everyone here can remember the derogatory way in which he referred to "minor" intellectual properties in the past: "...the flavor of the week Ant-Man. Not to be mean, but whatever it is. What is the next Blank-Man?”... "Thor?... Thor has a movie? [Laughter.] Really? I mean, come on”.

Yeah. Snyder basically got his ass kicked by these "flavor of the week" characters, some of them incredibly obscure to the general public. I think there's a lesson here for everyone one of us.

"If A equals success, then the formula is: A=X+Y+Z. X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut" - Albert Einstein :lol:
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Spacedog

Great Scott!!!

Postby Spacedog » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:48 am

Arrogance really seems to be a common trait shared by the people in charge of the shared DCU. You guys remember Geoff Johns' words some years ago? "... I'm going to speak frankly: I think our characters are bigger than Marvel's... it's better to focus on each individual hero of the League rather than "smashing them together"

Yeah. You guys really put a terrific focus on each individual hero of the League. :roll:

zryson

Fagorstorm

Postby zryson » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:59 am

Spacedog wrote:This situation is ridiculous. If WB/DC had done their work correctly, we wouldn't be comparing Superman with any other intellectual property from Marvel or DC.

To a certain extent, Snyder's arrogance proved to be his downfall. I think almost everyone here can remember the derogatory way in which he referred to "minor" intellectual properties in the past: "...the flavor of the week Ant-Man. Not to be mean, but whatever it is. What is the next Blank-Man?”... "Thor?... Thor has a movie? [Laughter.] Really? I mean, come on”.

Yeah. Snyder basically got his ass kicked by these "flavor of the week" characters, some of them incredibly obscure to the general public. I think there's a lesson here for everyone one of us.

"If A equals success, then the formula is: A=X+Y+Z. X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut" - Albert Einstein :lol:


You are spot on remembering that quote line from one of Snyder's interviews. Snyder often over-estimated his talent/approach and a classic example was when he snapped at the public for clinging to the Christopher Reeve version of Superman and not his own.

zryson

Fagorstorm

Postby zryson » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 am

Spacedog wrote:Arrogance really seems to be a common trait shared by the people in charge of the shared DCU. You guys remember Geoff Johns' words some years ago? "... I'm going to speak frankly: I think our characters are bigger than Marvel's... it's better to focus on each individual hero of the League rather than "smashing them together"

Yeah. You guys really put a terrific focus on each individual hero of the League. :roll:


Maybe Johns was remembering when DC superheroes were bigger and more popular than Marvel? And in a perfect world, Warner Bros should have pulled the plug on Justice League and let Whedon go over the movie entirely from start to finish but the problem was that so much money had already been spent and the movie system being what it is, there is a lot of discussion of how things should go, and Warner Bros really needed Justice League by its due date in theaters since the merchandising aspect was underway.
User avatar

achilles

Silly French Man

Postby achilles » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:07 am

zryson wrote:
Maybe Johns was remembering when DC superheroes were bigger and more popular than Marvel? And in a perfect world, Warner Bros should have pulled the plug on Justice League and let Whedon go over the movie entirely from start to finish but the problem was that so much money had already been spent and the movie system being what it is, there is a lot of discussion of how things should go, and Warner Bros really needed Justice League by its due date in theaters since the merchandising aspect was underway.


And by sticking with the movie Snyder started, they thereby cost themselves a huge amount of money by destroying fan and general moviegoer goodwill, thus tanking League 2's chances of even being made. Great move, WB!
User avatar

uz000

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby uz000 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:17 pm

zryson wrote:Warner Bros.' Justice League may end up the biggest-grossing "flop" of all time by the end, but it's not giving up without a fight. The Zack Snyder/Joss Whedon superhero sequel earned $2.545 million (-44%) on its fourth Friday for a likely $9.6m (-42%) fourth weekend and $212.1m 24-day total. That fourth-weekend hold is comparable to Man of Steel (-45%), Suicide Squad (-41%) and Wonder Woman (-39%), while it's still ahead of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them in terms of holds and raw numbers. Had this movie opened bigger, these legs would be exactly what WB was hoping for when it slotted the Super Friends movie in the pre-Thanksgiving slot.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmende ... 67c85a40f8

Warner Bros. Faces A Possible $50M To $100M Loss On 'Justice League'
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/20 ... 49f8525d8b


*facepalm*

Do you even read what you are linking to?

That genius at Forbes is basing everything on JL making 635m as it's final box office. He is completely wrong.

JL has made 615m in 4 weeks. If you look at all the movies that grossed more than JL this year you'll see that the smallest time in cinemas was Beauty and the Beast with 15 weeks.

So supposing JL runs for another 10 weeks are you seriously saying it will only make another 20 m?

JL with another 10 weeks is going to make 800 m in total. It's international box office is very good.
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Jack Charlemagne

rubber spoon

Postby Jack Charlemagne » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:53 pm

uz000 wrote:So supposing JL runs for another 10 weeks are you seriously saying it will only make another 20 m?


You're presuming the world will still be here.

:-D


And I think seeing returns reconciling cost is one thing, but investors generally want HUGE returns. By that screwy logic where "enough" simply does not exist in the lexicon of capitalists, works that make money can still widely be held as failures.
User avatar

achilles

Silly French Man

Postby achilles » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:45 pm

uz000 wrote:
*facepalm*

Do you even read what you are linking to?

That genius at Forbes is basing everything on JL making 635m as it's final box office. He is completely wrong.

JL has made 615m in 4 weeks. If you look at all the movies that grossed more than JL this year you'll see that the smallest time in cinemas was Beauty and the Beast with 15 weeks.

So supposing JL runs for another 10 weeks are you seriously saying it will only make another 20 m?

JL with another 10 weeks is going to make 800 m in total. It's international box office is very good.


It may make another $20 million, but it's not going to get near $800 million, not if all it has right now is $635. It also may not stay in cinemas much longer. It's a false comparison to liken it to Beauty and the Beast, which did much better from the start than JL, and had much better reviews, (though it isn't to my taste). And you're ignoring the 900 pound gorilla in the room, Star Wars, which will destroy any remaining box office JL might have had.

Honestly, scheduling was another huge mistake WB made. Putting it right after Thor, and not too long before Star Wars, was about the dumbest move they could have made in that regard, especially as they knew it was an iffy movie. They should have waited till mid January, a traditional off time for movies, or ran it in early Spring next year, well before any of the blockbuster contenders.

As for how good it's international box office is, well, not terribly great, not bad. Some movies are absolutely saved by that, like the crappy Mummy reboot, which became a minor money maker as opposed to a huge money loser due to its international take. JL might in the end make some money, that's uncertain, (and probably unlikely, considering what I mentioned about the studio's take of the box office), but in any event it won't be anyone's idea of a hit.

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