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Review Group Week 167 - GHOST RIDER #34

Discuss the latest comic book news and front page articles, read or post your own reviews of comics, and talk about anything comic book related. Threads from the two subforums below will also show up here. News Stand topics can also be read and posted in from The Asylum.

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thefourthman
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Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:50 am

amlah6 wrote:Not what I said at all. I said it "succeeds in what it is" which is to say that in being a horror comic with elements of action and comedy, a popcorn comic if you will, it's an entertaining bit of escapism.

I think by limiting "great" to thought provoking works you're eliminating a huge part of the creative process of the comic which is the actual art. The chase sequence in this comic is freaking awesome as is the page of Ketch's transformation into Ghost Rider. If art isn't being included in the equation as to what makes a great comic, you might as well just stick to prose.

but it was, or it wouldn't have gotten the 9 :p

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Postby Punchy » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:52 am

thefourthman wrote:But outside influenes are there and do effect the book.

And I enjoyed the book. I didn't hate it. But the job of a review is to tell someone why they should read the book over the other books and it is difficult to make a case for that book over any of the other wolverine books. Even Origins has been good since Dark Reign started, although with this last issue it seems that it may have been a short lived thing.

Dilution is one of two really big factors (the other is the comics industry's inability to market outside of its niche audience) that I think keeps comic book sales where they are at. So I will speak out about it every time it happens for no reason.
There are 8 seperate Wolverine titles on my shelves right now in single issue format. That means that if the trailer works and there are more people finding their way to comic shops as a result of the Wolverine movie we are sending them in eight different directions. And this doesn't even take into consideration comics inability to act like a professional industry i.e., they are jumbling the release schedule because Millar and McNiven can't get a book out on time.

That being said, I am sending movie goers to Weapon X, not because it is better than Millar's book, but because it is a better starting place for movie goers. I don't base my personal recommendations on my personal quantifiers, but on whether or not it works for the customer asking the question. In recommending a book in store, it is all about whether or not the customer as end consumer will be satisfied with the product and whether or not that purchase will get them to come back. I think my review of the book (Weapon X) reflected that attitude.

I try to make my reviews fit as wide as they can as opposed to giving an arbitrarily high score to a book because I liked it, I try to give high scores to books that I think most people will like and try to explain why they will or won't.

I also read more books than you, so it does take more for a book to impress me, as it should.

And if people are going to go back and pick up the trades or add the book then great, but the book is not going to see a significant increase in sales as a result of this issue or its positive reviews.

Ghost Rider probably got a higher score than a lot of books, because it was entertaining, but it is not a perfect book and as I have said, it is not a book that means any more than what is on the page. Doesn't detract from the quality of the work presented... it just doesn't make the next echelon of quality.


And nobody is saying it is the next echelon or whatever!

The numeric portion of the review isn't important, it's the contents, the way I pick the number is arbitrary, a 9 can mean an Alan Moore masterpiece which pushes the medium to scary places or a well-crafted Bendis dialogue comic, it can mean anything I like.

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Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:55 am

Punchy wrote:And nobody is saying it is the next echelon or whatever!

The numeric portion of the review isn't important, it's the contents, the way I pick the number is arbitrary, a 9 can mean an Alan Moore masterpiece which pushes the medium to scary places or a well-crafted Bendis dialogue comic, it can mean anything I like.

and that has always been my problem with scores...
this book is solid and deserves a high score, I don't feel it deserves to be the second highest rated book we have read (third if you include Watchmen)

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Postby Punchy » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:56 am

thefourthman wrote:and that has always been my problem with scores...
this book is solid and deserves a high score, I don't feel it deserves to be the second highest rated book we have read (third if you include Watchmen)


Why not? It's not like we have chosen many better comics is it, we normally choose fair to middling superhero books.

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Postby Chubbles » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:57 am

Both the iron fist review we had and this ghost rider issue have gotten me to track down back issues as well as add to my pull list which is why I gave them high scores. That weighs pretty heavily on me when reviewing a book i had no prior interest in. Four Eyes was as close to a 10 as I have read ever. Was GR 34 less than a point away as excellent? No, not at all. I don't view the rankings in relation to each other but as individual reads at that very moment. If everything i graded was in relation to the rest of my favorite books ever then prolly very few books we have reviewed would have received anything above a 6.

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Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:00 pm

Punchy wrote:Why not? It's not like we have chosen many better comics is it, we normally choose fair to middling superhero books.

we, not me... :p

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Postby Punchy » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:01 pm

thefourthman wrote:we, not me... :p


Whenever you make an... eccentric pick, there are only like 4 reviews! You, me and Amlah.
Last edited by Punchy on Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:02 pm

Chubbles wrote:Both the iron fist review we had and this ghost rider issue have gotten me to track down back issues as well as add to my pull list which is why I gave them high scores. That weighs pretty heavily on me when reviewing a book i had no prior interest in. Four Eyes was as close to a 10 as I have read ever. Was GR 34 less than a point away as excellent? No, not at all. I don't view the rankings in relation to each other but as individual reads at that very moment. If everything i graded was in relation to the rest of my favorite books ever then prolly very few books we have reviewed would have received anything above a 6.

Then why score it at all, the score has only one purpose to be used as a quantitative analysis of the book. It's only purpose is to be used as a comparison to other books reviewed by the same source, in this instance the Review Group.

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Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:03 pm

Punchy wrote:Whenever you make an... eccentric pick, there are only like 4 reviews!

not my fault that you guys have crappy shops and no foresight into what will make an interesting read two months in advance. I don't think I have ever picked a book that we ordered solely for me (and there are a lot of those by the way)

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Postby Punchy » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:05 pm

thefourthman wrote:not my fault that you guys have crappy shops and no foresight into what will make an interesting read two months in advance. I don't think I have ever picked a book that we ordered solely for me (and there are a lot of those by the way)


My shop orders most indies, being in the UK, tastes run a little further afield than Marvel or DC.

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Postby Chubbles » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:05 pm

thefourthman wrote:Then why score it at all, the score has only one purpose to be used as a quantitative analysis of the book. It's only purpose is to be used as a comparison to other books reviewed by the same source, in this instance the Review Group.


that's how others interpret the scores but not me. I care more about what people liked or disliked about a book, not necessarily what the scores were. I never remember what the scores are, just if i liked it or not.

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Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:06 pm

Punchy wrote:My shop orders most indies, being in the UK, tastes run a little further afield than Marvel or DC.

I was speaking the greater "you", like you were "we"... but I guess turnabout is fair play :p
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Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:13 pm

Chubbles wrote:that's how others interpret the scores but not me. I care more about what people liked or disliked about a book, not necessarily what the scores were. I never remember what the scores are, just if i liked it or not.

If everyone feels this way we should just ditch the scores and go to a Skip it, check it, must have type system.

Just saying if the scores are ultimately meaningless we should go to something more useful to people looking in the fish bowl.

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Postby Chubbles » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:20 pm

thefourthman wrote:If everyone feels this way we should just ditch the scores and go to a Skip it, check it, must have type system.

Just saying if the scores are ultimately meaningless we should go to something more useful to people looking in the fish bowl.


i say we should have both. That way amlah won't commit suicide upon learning his stats are now rendered meaningless and we can take away the ambiguity of the scoring system as the lone rating system.

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Postby guitarsmashley » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:24 pm

thefourthman wrote:Doesn't have to be, but it has to bring more to the table than this book does.

Great pieces affect the reader in numerous ways. I don't think any of us were affected by this book.

I got a semi.
doombug wrote:You really are the george carlin of the outhouse. that's fucking hilarious.


doombug wrote:and yeah, Yoni called it. :drunk



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