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ReviewGroup Week176 - DARK AVENGERS/UNCANNY X-MEN: UTOPIA #1

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Postby MrBlack » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:02 pm

thefourthman wrote:no, and I still don't think he marched the students in, I think he was there to keep an eye on it and HoJ is wrong, the Humanity Now people are rolling their sleeves up the second they walk over the bridge, they were the provokers. Let's see we have this obvious anti mutant agenda, what's the best way to stir up shit? Let's march into their home and tell our stupid shit to their faces.

It's funny to me that the third review sees Trask as a levelheaded guy instead of an expert manipulator, he is obviously a mirror to Norman.

It's not so much that he is a level-headed guy, but that he appears to be one in this issue. The X-Men are, perhaps understandably, circling the wagons, while Trask is out there distancing himself from the violence and rebuking his followers for using anti-mutant slurs. We know he's the bad guy, but he sure looks like the good guy from the public's POV.

The Norman reference is right on. Yeah, he's the bad guy, but even when someone like Hawkeye calls him out on it, Norman spins it to his own benefit. It's one of the reasons I'm enjoying Dark Reign (and why I enjoyed Utopia): the bad guys aren't just frothing madmen.

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Postby thefourthman » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:09 pm

SuperginraiX wrote:I blame the artist or they're trying for misdirection. Man, I hope they don't put him back in the chair. :evil:

so you blame thirty guys?

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Postby thefourthman » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:11 pm

MrBlack wrote:It's not so much that he is a level-headed guy, but that he appears to be one in this issue. The X-Men are, perhaps understandably, circling the wagons, while Trask is out there distancing himself from the violence and rebuking his followers for using anti-mutant slurs. We know he's the bad guy, but he sure looks like the good guy from the public's POV.

The Norman reference is right on. Yeah, he's the bad guy, but even when someone like Hawkeye calls him out on it, Norman spins it to his own benefit. It's one of the reasons I'm enjoying Dark Reign (and why I enjoyed Utopia): the bad guys aren't just frothing madmen.

ahh... okay, that makes sense.


Although, you are destined to hate Dark Reign as all of the bad guys are frothing madmen. :twisted:

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Postby ****** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:26 pm

thefourthman wrote:so you blame thirty guys?


I blame everyone who has ever drawn a comic period. I'm totally knocking points off this issue for Byrne's racist bullshit since he drew the X-Men in 1982.

I really need to finish this comic so I can get to the wheelchair part as it's sounding epic.

don't mind me, I'm just bored

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Postby Victorian Squid » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:14 pm

thefourthman wrote:no, and I still don't think he marched the students in, I think he was there to keep an eye on it and HoJ is wrong, the Humanity Now people are rolling their sleeves up the second they walk over the bridge, they were the provokers. Let's see we have this obvious anti mutant agenda, what's the best way to stir up shit? Let's march into their home and tell our stupid shit to their faces.

It's funny to me that the third review sees Trask as a levelheaded guy instead of an expert manipulator, he is obviously a mirror to Norman.


So you would consider it a GOOD IDEA to put a small group of minority children in front of a LEGAL and so-far NON-VIOLENT KKK march?!?! And think that since you anticipate they were going to cause trouble it's ok to provoke it???
Last edited by Victorian Squid on Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Punchy » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:15 pm

House of J wrote:So you would consider it a GOOD IDEA to put a small group of minority children in front of a LEGAL and so-far NON-VIOLENT KKK march?!?! And think that since you anticipate they were going to cause trouble it's ok to provoke it???

This is so fucking stupid, I'm tired of the retardedness of the outhouse and the people who post here.


Fascist!

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Postby thefourthman » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:25 pm

House of J wrote:So you would consider it a GOOD IDEA to put a small group of minority children in front of a LEGAL and so-far NON-VIOLENT KKK march?!?! And think that since you anticipate they were going to cause trouble it's ok to provoke it???

This is so fucking stupid, I'm tired of the retardedness of the outhouse and the people who post here.

He didn't put them there, they wanted to go!
They didn't provoke. Dude, you really need to read it again. When Trask and Co. get there, he is like "It's Showtime" and they are rolling up their sleeves, this is before any mutants say anything to them. And when the kids get involved, Beast tells them to stop, but mayhem has already busted loose.

Sure they could have not been there and when they rolled up their sleeves, Beast could have reacted differently, but should they really just let the hate mongers run through their town. And it was peaceful because they didn't walk into every town and roll up their sleeves.

There were pro-mutant humans who wanted to start trouble before Trask and the group get to Beast, but he tells them "Ignore the humans. These are the small fish."

Trask knew exactly what was gonna go down and how to spin it.

Beast uses poor judgement, but it is hardly a stupid or rash thing to do.

There were kids involved in the equal rights marches of the 60s and most of the hardcore fighting happened at high schools because the adults didn't want the blacks in their schools. Same shit. Should the kids be expected to take a back seat. Especially when they have powers? What the hell man. These kids have been trained how to defend themselves. Trask would be smart to use that in his little hate speeches.
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Postby Punchy » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:28 pm

I think the cause of the Riots is meant to be ambiguous. Maybe it was Trask, maybe it was the X-Men, the 'mystery' of it adds to the story.

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Postby thefourthman » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:30 pm

Punchy wrote:I think the cause of the Riots is meant to be ambiguous. Maybe it was Trask, maybe it was the X-Men, the 'mystery' of it adds to the story.

there is no ambigiousity. The Humanity Now people show provocation and ready for a fight before they even see Mutants.

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Postby Punchy » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:31 pm

thefourthman wrote:there is no ambigiousity. The Humanity Now people show provocation and ready for a fight before they even see Mutants.


Maybe, but Hellion's attitude certainly didn't help.

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Postby Victorian Squid » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:35 pm

thefourthman wrote:He didn't put them there, they wanted to go!
They didn't provoke. Dude, you really need to read it again. When Trask and Co. get there, he is like "It's Showtime" and they are rolling up their sleeves, this is before any mutants say anything to them. And when the kids get involved, he tells them to stop, but mayhem has already busted loose.

Sure they could have not been there and when they rolled up their sleeves, Beast could have reacted differently, but should they really just let the hate mongers run through their town. And it was peaceful because they didn't walk into every town and roll up their sleeves.

There were pro-mutant humans who wanted to start trouble before Trask and the group get to Beast, but he tells them "Ignore the humans. These are the small fish."

Trask knew exactly what was gonna go down and how to spin it.

Beast uses poor judgement, but it is hardly a stupid or rash thing to do.


1) sorry about the blow-up, I'm having a bad day

2) They shouldn't have been there at all. People have a legal right to march if they have gone through the proper procedures, everything here shows this was a legal march. San Fran isn't the X-Men's property.

3) Just because they "wanted to go" doesn't mean Beast should have let them. He is in charge of these minors.

4) Rolling up your sleeves is not recognized as an act of violence that justifies any retaliation whatsoever.

5) "Beast uses poor judgement" -- Excuse me, this is the sort of problem Beast has experience with his entire life. How many fucking marches or protests have there been in the history of the X-Men?! No room for bad judgement here. He's lucky no one was killed.

6) Trask knew...DUH! So I guess he's a whole heckuva lot smarter than one Hank McCoy, ain't he? Trask said...FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

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Postby thefourthman » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:41 pm

Punchy wrote:Maybe, but Hellion's attitude certainly didn't help.

Dude, Trask wants to march his klan throught the Mutant section of San Francisco. Beast meet him and says "go around". Trask says you can't stop our passage. Northstart says "Spew all the hate you want..." Trask says "ACLU" then Hellion loses his cool. Yeah Trask is smart enough to wait for the Mutants to land the first blow (by a push from a kid to an adult). The adult Mutants tell the kids to get back and stay out of it. Trask says "Be Careful they're in it together! My God -- the Mutants have cut us off! We're surrounded!" (with a clear shot of his supporters filling the horizen behind him) - his cronies attack and throw first blows (punches, adults to kids) Beast is still trying to get his folks to not partake, but at that point it is all over.

Sure Hellion is being rash and stupid, but that is what he does. Has done since Morrison's run.

Trust me if there were cameras at Ground Zero, Trask wouldn't be able to spin his slant on things, but there aren't.

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Postby Victorian Squid » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:42 pm

PS As far as I'm concerned, everyday citizens have every reason to think mutants cause nothing but destruction and cannot solve the simplest conflict without violence at this point. When's the last time the X-Men actually saved the world (no, the giant fucking bullet doesn't count, that was too dumb).
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Postby Victorian Squid » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:43 pm

thefourthman wrote:Dude, Trask wants to march his klan throught the Mutant section of San Francisco. Beast meet him and says "go around". Trask says you can't stop our passage. Northstart says "Spew all the hate you want..." Trask says "ACLU" then Hellion loses his cool. Yeah Trask is smart enough to wait for the Mutants to land the first blow (by a push from a kid to an adult). The adult Mutants tell the kids to get back and stay out of it. Trask says "Be Careful they're in it together! My God -- the Mutants have cut us off! We're surrounded!" (with a clear shot of his supporters filling the horizen behind him) - his cronies attack and throw first blows (punches, adults to kids) Beast is still trying to get his folks to not partake, but at that point it is all over.

Sure Hellion is being rash and stupid, but that is what he does. Has done since Morrison's run.

Trust me if there were cameras at Ground Zero, Trask wouldn't be able to spin his slant on things, but there aren't.


Actually, that says it all.

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Postby Punchy » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:46 pm

House of J wrote:PS As far as I'm concerned, everyday citizens have every reason to think mutants cause nothing but destruction and cannot solve the simplest conflict without violence at this point. When's the last time the X-Men actually saved the world (no, the giant fucking bullet doesn't count, that was too dumb).


The X-Men were involved in Secret Invasion.

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