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Review Group Week 183 - ULTIMATE COMICS AVENGERS #1

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thefourthman
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Postby thefourthman » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:13 pm

amlah6 wrote:http://myworld.ebay.com/ultimatecomicsonline/

I just bought the Mark Gruenwald Hawkeye mini, the Chuck Dixon Hawkeye mini and Larry Hama's Kitty Pryde: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. so the really awesome stuff is gone, but I'm sure you can find something. ;)

Hey Lee, do you really expect to get that much for the Morrison Batman run? If so I'm putting my issues up tonight when I get home.

Sometimes I just do what the boss tells me. I would rather not have any Chew #2's then be still in the hole for them a month later, but whatever.

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Postby Chris » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:27 pm

So, I read this today..

I don't usually post reviews or anything, but since this was the first thread about it that I saw, here goes.

I thought it was ok. Not bad. But not enough to jizz all over like some people make it out to be. Maybe I'm just completely over the Ultimate universe after Loeb ruined Ultimates, and the new Ult. Spidey artist sucks ass.. but I didn't think this was anything special. Just seemed like pretty average superhero fare.

It wasn't even all that absurd or over the top as I've come to expect from The Ultimates (and I refuse to call it Ultimate Comics Avengers!) it was actually pretty tame considering what we see all the time in the 616 books nowadays.

The art was nice, but it'll take some time for me to get used to making a connection between Pacheco and the Ultimates in my mind.

The story was decent, but dedicating practically the entire issue to what would essentially play out as a couple minutes, and what was really just one sequence of Cap/Hawkeye hijacking the choppers and kicking AIM's ass, then the Red Skull stuff.. I think it was too much setup.

So, that brought alot of the score down for me. Maybe it'll read better once the more story is out, I dunno.

Art: 8
Story: 3

Total: 5.5
Last edited by Chris on Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby 48THRiLLS » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:53 pm

Wow, I am curious to see how the rest of the reviews turn out... I wonder if those who did not like this disliked it even more since some enjoyed it so much?
...and I disagree about this being too much set up, I thought that it didn't waste any time and hit the ground running.

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Postby Chris » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:01 pm

48THRiLLS wrote:...and I disagree about this being too much set up, I thought that it didn't waste any time and hit the ground running.


In some ways.. but it was meaningless action. The whole issue, with the exception of a couple pages for Skull and a couple pages for Fury/Hawkeye was Cap and Hawkeye beating up lame AIM lackeys. I thought it was pretty lame to drag it out for basically the entire issue.

Storywise, it was pretty much all set up for the Red Skull, from the very first couple pages even.
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Postby Old Man » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:08 pm

thefourthman wrote:I would rather not have any Chew #2's then be still in the hole for them a month later, but whatever.


Another of those damned if ya do, damned if ya don't deals. Order 20, then eat 16 of them. Order 3, then have people bitch because it isn't available.

That's why I always tell my LCS if I am adding a title or wanting to try one issue of a new series.

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Postby 48THRiLLS » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:17 pm

Chris wrote:In some ways.. but it was meaningless action. The whole issue, with the exception of a couple pages for Skull and a couple pages for Fury/Hawkeye was Cap and Hawkeye beating up lame AIM lackeys. I thought it was pretty lame to drag it out for basically the entire issue.

Storywise, it was pretty much all set up for the Red Skull, from the very first couple pages even.


Maybe it was meaningless action but it is an Avengers book, if I was looking for thought provocation the last place I would expect it is a Millar penned Avengers comic. I think this comic did exactly what it was supposed to for a first issue... it set up the plot, had some bad ass moments, was very easy to read for those who have been out of the loop, and it got me (who had no expectations of liking this) to want more.
... but I also ate paint chips when I was a kid, so what do I know? :smt102

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Postby Chris » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:29 pm

48THRiLLS wrote:Maybe it was meaningless action but it is an Avengers book, if I was looking for thought provocation the last place I would expect it is a Millar penned Avengers comic.


I guess.. still, putting up against both The Ultimates #1 and The Ultimates 2 #1, it doesn't hold up well. And I guess that's why I'm giving it such a low score.

If this was any other book.. if it was New Avengers or whatever, I wouldn't have half the problems I had with it. I'd just think it was a fun, action-y issue.

But The Ultimates set a high standard, and right now I think it's a pretty mediocre start to this book.

I mean.. let's compare.

In The Ultimates #1 we get:

- fucking badass WW2 Cap origin.
- pretty detailed introductions of all of The Ultimates' characters

In The Ultimates 2 #1 we get:

- Cap vs. terrorists, with actual plot behind it.
- Cap still adjusting to life in our times.
- The stuff with Thor/Volstagg
- Banner outed as The Hulk




In Ultimate Avengers #1 we get:

- couple pages of Fury/Hawkeye
- Cap/Hawkeye fight some mindless AIM lackeys, just for the hell of it, no plot behind it or anything.
- Red Skull


Sure, we get action, and a little foreshadowing of what the big plot's going to be about.. but the entire issue pretty much focuses on a fight between Cap/Hawkeye and AIM lackeys, and it's pretty much just a plot device. It's there for no other reason than to introduce us to the Red Skull.

We don't know WHY Cap/Hawkeye were fighting AIM. We don't know how they got there. We're just thrust into this battle, and that's that, almost as if Millar didn't really care about 3/4's of the content, and just wanted the easiest possible way to get to the meat of the issue, which was Skull towards the end.
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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:07 am

Ultimates #1 and Ultimates 2 #1 were both mainly fight scenes with little to no plot, we didn't know how fully significant they were until the entire story was done.

Now I'm not saying this fight is definitely actually important, but it may be, when Ultimates #1 came out, there were complaints that it was just an action scene and where were the rest of the team? It's too slow etc, but now, it's regarded as a classic issue, and the template for how a Captain America movie should be.

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Postby KING King Impulse » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:58 am

Ultimates 1 #1 was nothing but Cap in WWII, this had a lot more of a hook to it than that did.
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Postby 48THRiLLS » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:06 am

Chris wrote:In Ultimate Avengers #1 we get:

- couple pages of Fury/Hawkeye
- Cap/Hawkeye fight some mindless AIM lackeys, just for the hell of it, no plot behind it or anything.
- Red Skull


Sure, we get action, and a little foreshadowing of what the big plot's going to be about.. but the entire issue pretty much focuses on a fight between Cap/Hawkeye and AIM lackeys, and it's pretty much just a plot device. It's there for no other reason than to introduce us to the Red Skull.

We don't know WHY Cap/Hawkeye were fighting AIM. We don't know how they got there. We're just thrust into this battle, and that's that, almost as if Millar didn't really care about 3/4's of the content, and just wanted the easiest possible way to get to the meat of the issue, which was Skull towards the end.


They were going after AIM because they were raiding the Baxter Building after the events of Ultimatum.
The issue sets up the status quo of the Ultimate U... Nic Fury is out, Carol Danvers is in, Tony Stark is still a drunk, Cap has gone rogue and they have to get him, and they explain why Cap went rogue... I think that is aces for an issue 1, all being set up pretty much in one huge action sequence.

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:16 am

48THRiLLS wrote:The issue sets up the status quo of the Ultimate U... Nic Fury is out, Carol Danvers is in, Tony Stark is still a drunk, Cap has gone rogue...


What?!

Regardless of whether you like this issue or not, it does no such thing. It doesn't even adequately give the status quo of all The Ultimates themselves!

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:50 am

Ultimate Avengers #1

Dear Marvel: Please change the bland logo, thanks.

Although that's about making sure we don't confuse this book with the other half a dozen 616 Avengers books. But it is ugly.

Inside the books are other obvious clues this is the Ultimate U, such as the return of melanistic Nick Fury and Griftery-looking Hawkeye.

Ultimate Tony Stark is shown as well, drunk and slumming in an S&M club complete with women in cages, shackles, and a dog. This is what the smartest guy in the world (almost) does after whatever-the-hell-happened in Ultimatum. Oh sure, he's playing chess. 'Cause he's smart.

The action scene involving Cap, Hawkeye, and some Ultimate AIM agents in helicopters is all very solid and quite cinematic, as has been mentioned. Oddly, Ultimate AIM agents seem even less effective than 616 AIM agents, with very mundane everyday technology shown. I feel a flare of nostalgia while reading this scene, then I realize it isn't Ultimate Cap & Hawkeye I am remembering, it's 616 Cap & Hawkeye I miss. Because other than the change of outfit that's what this reads like. This is very generic superhero stuff drawn very nicely.

Then comes the big reveal--the one moment in the book that has any punch at all--but I already know the secret thanks the Mark Millar, the internet, and my spoiler-reading eyeballs. I think it was a huge mistake for that to be revealed in advance. All the dramatic effect is drained from the reveal because I've known Red Skull was coming all along. And he does, and he kicks Cap's ass thoroughly which did surprise me because Cap has gone toe-to-toe with Ultimate Hulk.

Part of me thinks the reveal of what the stolen device is will be interesting, but it is only alluded to as cargo here.

I think this book needed more--maybe some extra pages and another subplot running side-by-side--something. For an Ultimates book, for $3.99, I felt this book lacked any sign of new vitality for this new launch. I enjoyed it, but not nearly as much as any single issue of Ultimates 1 or 2. It was full of solid set-up material, but it seemed more generic than the earlier books instead of more dynamic or full of renewed purpose. No nuance, few tantalizing hints of things to come.

If this book were $2.99 I'd probably continue to follow this book to see how things heat up, but this will be an easy book to trade-wait.



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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:27 am

So, basically I agree with most of what Chris said about the book. I know for a lot of people just Millar's name back on the book is a draw, but after U3 and Ultimatum (and that mini with the Supreme Power crew) I needed more from this first issue to make me give a shit about Ultimate anything.

Plus, to me this is more evidence Millar is in a bit of a slump. He's written better in the past and I'm sure he will in the future.

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Postby Chris » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:31 am

Punchy wrote:Ultimates #1 and Ultimates 2 #1 were both mainly fight scenes with little to no plot, we didn't know how fully significant they were until the entire story was done.

Now I'm not saying this fight is definitely actually important, but it may be, when Ultimates #1 came out, there were complaints that it was just an action scene and where were the rest of the team? It's too slow etc, but now, it's regarded as a classic issue, and the template for how a Captain America movie should be.


That's why I said my feelings may change once I read it as a whole.. but JUST looking at this first issue on it's own, I don't think it's all that good.
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Postby Chris » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:33 am

House of J wrote:I feel a flare of nostalgia while reading this scene, then I realize it isn't Ultimate Cap & Hawkeye I am remembering, it's 616 Cap & Hawkeye I miss. Because other than the change of outfit that's what this reads like. This is very generic superhero stuff drawn very nicely.


I think this wraps up the brunt of how I felt about it much better than I said it.
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