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Review Group Week 183 - ULTIMATE COMICS AVENGERS #1

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:48 am

Plus, we've been told repeatedly in the press how the Ultimate U needed relaunched because 616 had
caught up with or surpassed it in some ways. That the point of Ultimatum was to reinvigorate it or even award it greater "relevance" again.

I just don't catch so much as a whiff of that here. If this were U3, following U2 in a timely manner, my expectations might be different. But I did what Chris did when he felt underwhelmed, I dug out my old Ultimates books and it was obvious this book didn't have the impact the others did.

Plus, the book had one swerve--just one surprise, and Millar gave it up at the con.

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Postby Chris » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:54 am

House of J wrote:Plus, we've been told repeatedly in the press how the Ultimate U needed relaunched because 616 had
caught up with or surpassed it in some ways. That the point of Ultimatum was to reinvigorate it or even award it greater "relevance" again.

I just don't catch so much as a whiff of that here. If this were U3, following U2 in a timely manner, my expectations might be different. But I did what Chris did when he felt underwhelmed, I dug out my old Ultimates books and it was obvious this book didn't have the impact the others did.

Plus, the book had one swerve--just one surprise, and Millar gave it up at the con.


Right. This felt much more like a 616 book than Ultimate anything.
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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:00 am

Chris wrote:Right. This felt much more like a 616 book than Ultimate anything.


I guess the fact that we are forced to at least consider the possibility that Tony Stark likes watching women in bondage or bestiality is supposed to be Ultimate-y?

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Postby superfictious » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:13 am

Yeah, the regular Marvel U out-Ultimated the Ultimate U around three years ago. It's time for more than just a change of status quo if this line wants to continue to be edgy.

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:23 pm

The way they tried to give the UU greater relevance was by killing off a bunch of characters that are unkillable in the MU, but people hated that.

Unless they go mature readers, tits and blood all over, what else can they do to separate it from 616?

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:56 pm

Punchy wrote:The way they tried to give the UU greater relevance was by killing off a bunch of characters* that are unkillable in the MU, but people hated that.

Unless they go mature readers, tits and blood all over, what else can they do to separate it from 616?**


*That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard (if the plan goes no further than that). It goes right back to my saying why should I care about these characters if the creators don't? (In other words, if I know the kid I'm playing with is just going to break all his toys and mine, why would I ever go back over to his house again?) You would have to be high on crack to believe putting all your characters on a big dartboard and randomly killing off the ones you hit is a good marketing strategy.

**I guess they had better think of something or else what is the freaking point?? They will run out of characters to pointlessly kill pretty quick.

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:06 pm

House of J wrote:*That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard (if the plan goes no further than that). It goes right back to my saying why should I care about these characters if the creators don't? (In other words, if I know the kid I'm playing with is just going to break all his toys and mine, why would I ever go back over to his house again?) You would have to be high on crack to believe putting all your characters on a big dartboard and randomly killing off the ones you hit is a good marketing strategy.

**I guess they had better think of something or else what is the freaking point?? They will run out of characters to pointlessly kill pretty quick.


You care because they are well-written.

Well, what something?

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:14 pm

Punchy wrote:You care because they are well-written.

Well, what something?


Exactly. And after U3 and Ultimatum I don't. Thought that at least was clear, even to you.

The other isn't my problem. If you're asking me to write fanfic for you, you will be waiting a long long time.

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:18 pm

House of J wrote:Exactly. And after U3 and Ultimatum I don't. Thought that at least was clear, even to you.

The other isn't my problem. If you're asking me to write fanfic for you, you will be waiting a long long time.


But if they are well-written now, then that's all that matters.

I'm not asking for fan-fic, just a little constructiveness, rather than moaning. I'm genuinely interested in your ideas.

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:21 pm

Punchy wrote:But if they are well-written now, then that's all that matters.*

I'm not asking for fan-fic, just a little constructiveness, rather than moaning. I'm genuinely interested in your ideas.


My score is skewed upwards for the art. Once more, I believe Millar is in a slump recently, and will one day write better things. Maybe even later in Ultimate Avengers. If you choose to see anything I said as "moaning", it is clearly your problem not mine.

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:35 pm

House of J wrote:My score is skewed upwards for the art. Once more, I believe Millar is in a slump recently, and will one day write better things. Maybe even later in Ultimate Avengers. If you choose to see anything I said as "moaning", it is clearly your problem not mine.


Way to avoid my point.

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:41 pm

Punchy wrote:Way to avoid my point.


No I didn't.

I illustrated that I've yet to see proof of writing quality of the caliber of Ultimates 1 & 2. Your point was better writing would make people care about the UU characters--my point is maybe, but not from this issue.

Ultimate Avengers #1 just didn't revive my interest in the Ultimate U.

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:42 pm

House of J wrote:No I didn't.

I illustrated that I've yet to see proof of writing quality of the caliber of Ultimates 1 & 2. Your point was better writing would make people care about the UU characters--my point is maybe, but not from this issue.

Ultimate Avengers #1 just didn't revive my interest in the Ultimate U.


My point was: what would you do, not the other stuff.

You just like to argue don't you!

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:47 pm

Punchy wrote:My point was: what would you do, not the other stuff.

You just like to argue don't you!


I assumed since you said I was avoiding your "point" you actually meant your point--not your question. If you want discussion, strive for some clarity.

What would I do? You're asking me to re-write this comic off-the-cuff? You're asking me to repair the damage U3 and Ultimatum did--which I am not entirely sure can be done. My answer would be, honestly, to just have never done any of that ever, and not put Loeb back in the game again either.

To write back from that? I don't know, and I'm not saying by the end of this 6 issue run Millar won't have pulled it off--but none of that bears on my review of this issue.

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:49 pm

House of J wrote:I assumed since you said I was avoiding your "point" you actually meant your point--not your question. If you want discussion, strive for some clarity.

What would I do? You're asking me to re-write this comic off-the-cuff? You're asking me to repair the damage U3 and Ultimatum did--which I am not entirely sure can be done. My answer would be, honestly, to just have never done any of that ever, and not put Loeb back in the game again either.

To write back from that? I don't know, and I'm not saying by the end of this 6 issue run Millar won't have pulled it off--but none of that bears on my review of this issue.


No, I'm asking for just a few ideas.

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