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Review Group Week 187 - DARK REIGN: THE LIST - AVENGERS

Discuss the latest comic book news and front page articles, read or post your own reviews of comics, and talk about anything comic book related. Threads from the two subforums below will also show up here. News Stand topics can also be read and posted in from The Asylum.

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Kerny
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Postby Kerny » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:49 pm

eltopo wrote:I felt like it was the same issue of NA we've been reading for 4 months
why did we need to have the whole "heroes shouldn't argument" agian?


Yeah that sucked

But as you said in your review vid, I'll probably be getting the rest of The List books too :(

Except for the hulk, I have no interest

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Postby Kerny » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:50 pm

Frag It wrote:Can someone tell me why Bullseye will heal after getting shot? I thought all he had was a strong skeleton? Nothing to do with healing.


I have no idea, unless he meant he shot him in places he wouldn't get srsly hurt and would heal like a normal person

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Postby Kerny » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:51 pm

eltopo wrote:didn't he get somesorta healing deal in thunderbolts ?


Wasn't it just regular ole surgery to repair a broken neck?

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Postby thefourthman » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:53 pm

House of J wrote:Cartoon Network really sucks for not producing shows like that, Korgoth of Barbaria, or Amazing Screw-On Head. They are all top-notch:

[spoiler][youtube=425,344,ym_y0Mugvsw][/youtube][/spoiler]
ASH was a one shot... wasn't a pilot, it was all there was...

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:57 pm

thefourthman wrote:ASH was a one shot... wasn't a pilot, it was all there was...


Yeah, but that shit was so good they were stupid not to throw money at them to make more.
Last edited by Victorian Squid on Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby KING King Impulse » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:59 pm

Arrgh, shop sold out. Also didn't get The Unwritten and G-Man. Going to visit the other shop tomorrow.
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Postby Daringd » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:05 pm

The List: Avengers: Bendis/Djurdjevic Marvel $3.99
Well, I really don’t know what to think of this to be honest. Part of me enjoyed it but after thinking about it this is decent at best. The art here is actually pretty solid, I wish Djurdjevic could be this good on Thor. Bendis on the other hand IF he plays some of the plot developments here right could really do something great. But as far as this issue stands not a whole lot here. On another note why the hell is this $3.99? Why include the DD preview and the X-men preview…come on marvel.
Overall 7.0/10

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:18 pm

Daringd wrote: On another note why the hell is this $3.99? Why include the DD preview and the X-men preview…come on marvel.
Overall 7.0/10


Yeah, I really don't know if I can stomach anymore $4-5 books with 22-26 page stories padded with "extras" like those preview pages.

I had to edit my original score up just a little to account for how angry & ripped off I felt when the story ended abruptly without even an indicator of where to read next. Silly me, for assuming the $3.99 price meant I might get more than 26 pages :roll: .
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Postby Starlord » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:33 pm

Dark Reign: The List - Avengers

Well I just can't wait anymore. Here we are with another Bendis book and once again I'm torn between the word meh and the word... huh. I won't rehash the plot since others have already done that. Let me point out what I thought were the strength and weaknesses of this book and leave it at that.

Strong: Bendis nails Spidey's dialogue everytime. In fact, I'd probably put him in the top three writers of all time who actually get this character.

Weak: Has he even read a book with Clint Barnes in it that wasn't pre nineteen-seventies. Talk about throwing a character's personality back thirty years.

Strong: Loving Norman Osborne more and more. This is a character in desperate need of upgrading and Bendis is doing a fine job.

Weak: Bendis dialogue. Other than Spider-Man they all sound the same.

Strong: The art! Excellent!

Weak: This story should have been in the New Avengers book because lately it seems we're not actually seeing the New Avengers much in their own book.

Strong: The potential that Bendis has set up is very strong.

Weak: Did I mention the dialogue. Don't believe me, read the opening scene: Classic Bendis. Let's spend four pages discussing what should be done and has been done.

Strong: The scene between Clint and Moonstone was very nice and a great nod to their past.

Story: 7
Art: 8
My Score: 7.60
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Postby Chris » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:54 pm

Dark Reign: The List - Avengers #1
by Brian Bendis & Marko Djurdjevic


Story: Dark Reign has been treading water for a while now, and The List seemed to finally be the point in this line-wide event that would mix things up a bit.. but I feel like this issue was an exercise in wasted potential. The issue certainly had some cool moments, but there really wasn't anything there that we either already haven't seen before, or that wasn't predictable as hell.

We've seen the Avengers hanging out, debating about what to do with Norman Osborn. We've seen Clint say he wants to kill Norman. In this issue, he finally makes a go for it.. but it was way too predictable. Honestly, the second we saw Norman mention Clint being on his "list" in the firsts few pages, it was pretty clear how the issue was going to end.

Regardless of how the book turns out, as a single issue, it didn't do much for me.

Art: Is it just me or did Marko Djurdjevic change his style? It seemed much more simplified, and probably faster as a result.. and I liked it! If this means more regular pencilwork, I'm all for it.

Story: 5.5
Art: 8

Total: 6.75
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Postby Punchy » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:01 pm

Chris wrote:Dark Reign: The List - Avengers #1
by Brian Bendis & Marko Djurdjevic


Story: Dark Reign has been treading water for a while now, and The List seemed to finally be the point in this line-wide event that would mix things up a bit.. but I feel like this issue was an exercise in wasted potential. The issue certainly had some cool moments, but there really wasn't anything there that we either already haven't seen before, or that wasn't predictable as hell.

We've seen the Avengers hanging out, debating about what to do with Norman Osborn. We've seen Clint say he wants to kill Norman. In this issue, he finally makes a go for it.. but it was way too predictable. Honestly, the second we saw Norman mention Clint being on his "list" in the firsts few pages, it was pretty clear how the issue was going to end.

Regardless of how the book turns out, as a single issue, it didn't do much for me.

Art: Is it just me or did Marko Djurdjevic change his style? It seemed much more simplified, and probably faster as a result.. and I liked it! If this means more regular pencilwork, I'm all for it.

Story: 5.5
Art: 8

Total: 6.75


Djurdjevic talks about his style change here:

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=22874

He says he did the issue in 9 days, which is pretty phenomenal.

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Postby Old Man » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:05 pm

JESUSFUCKINGCHRISTDOIHATEBRIANFUCKINGBENDIS.

Well, to be honest, I don't hate Bendis. I hate the way he writes. I've never met Bendis, although I have been at 2 conventions where he was a guest, and heard and watched him speak once. His smarmy smile irritates the hell out of me. I've read several stories by Bendis and never been blown away by any of them.

I used to read Comics Internationale. I bought it for several years. It was loaded with reviews. And what I noticed was that, for the most part, when a book got a review of 8 or better, it was usually a book that I bought every month. If the review was a 7, it was a book that I just sorta enjoyed. If it was a 6, it was something that I had already dropped.

I don't think I have ever read a Bendis book that I enjoyed enough to rate it at 6. That's just how little enjoyment I get from a Bendis-penned book. So let's start at 6 and see where it goes from there.

SPOILERS, BTW. Although I don't see how spoilers matter with this book.

On pages 1 and 2, I find the first thing (I'll list many) that irritates me: the coloring. Green is my favorite color. But I have never been in a room that is lit in green. The color is tinted yellow, bluish-white, or reddish-white. Incandescent lighting is yellowish, older fluorescent lighting is bluish white, and the newer fluorescent lighting is reddish-white.* I really hate it when rooms are colored in greenish tint in comic books. There few instances where green lighting would apply, yet in comics it is every fragging week. Bendis trope #1: countless word balloons on a 2-page sequence that say little. Ares and Ozzy Osbourne endlessly yammering on.

Page 5 : Clint Barton screaming at everybody, everybody standing around looking timid/afraid of Clint. I don't know about you, but I don't have conversations with people who scream like that. Even when my friends are angry, they seldom even raise they're voices like that. I wooda punched the jerk in the face had I been in that room.

Page 6: repeated panels. This is another trope that's getting overused these days. I understand that it is sometimes used so the artist can take a day off, but at $4 a book, I want my money's worth.

Page 7: Spider-Man using air quotes. Gahhrrr.

Page 9: Spider-Man giving Barton the father to 8-year-old son speech about life ain't fair. Gahhrrr.

Page 17: Clint is standing outside a window. A man is sleeping inside the room. Clint grabs the guy and throws him out a hole in the window. How did the hole get there? The hole is at least 6 feet in diameter, more likely 8 feet. That's a big hole. Where did the glass go? Reading further in the story, it is supposed to be a secured room. It must have been very thick glass that would be very heavy, yet the guy in the bed didn't hear Clint entering the room. Perhaps 1 of the first 10 pages of talking heads could have been sacrificed to better tell this part of the story.

Page 17: It is revealed that the guy in the bed was Venmom. Who is Venmom? Another permutation of Venom? It says right there on the page, "Venmom tried to escape!" (Okay, I get that it's a typo, but WTF? This is a Disney book. I expect proofreading in Disney books.)

Page 19-20: Clint shoots "Hawkeye" (at least 5 times), saying, "Too bad you'll heal." Then "Hawkeye" heals in the next panel, growing Wolverine-type claws and revealing his Mohawk (which would fit the character of "Hawkeye"), then is called Daken by Clint. Who is this "Hawkeye"/Daken, the new Super Adaptoid? Yes, I see after further examination that "Hawkeye" is really Bullseye because I can see the trademark bullseye on his forehead, but this is confusing stortytelling on the part of the writer AND the artist. The top of Bullseye's head is never shown, thus hiding his hair style, then Daken magically appears in the panel with the Mohawk hair, but his forehead is not shown at any angle to indicate it is not Bullseye.

Page 21: Clint shoots Daken in the head with an arrow. The sound effect is 'CHUCK', which is used 3 times on another page. Is this the only sound effect Bandis knows? Obviously not, as he uses others in this story. Did Bendis lose a bet with a friend named Chuck and the payoff is getting the friend's name in the book as much as possible?

Page 21 and 22: A woman named Karla magically shows up. Clint calls her Karla, and tells her to get her Moonstone. Is she Moonstone or another character who uses the Moonstone. There is no way to tell. On page 21, she blasts Clint with what appears to be flame or a force blast. Magically, it doesn't hit him, as he is saved by a force field, which Ozzy Osborne orders in the next panel. Lucky Clint, he is inside the force field; Karla is outside and can't blast him again. And how did Karla manifest her powers if she didn't have her Moonstone? Unless it is also a Personal Massage Device. She obviously didn't have it ON her -- perhaps IN her?

Pages 23 and 24: Even with the 'Security Lockdown' alarm flashing in the background, Clint manages to get into Osborne's meeting room. We know it is a meeting room because of the tacky plastic chairs. Apparently Sharon Osborne decided that too many force fields would be tacky, so Clint walks right in. There is a dramatic pause while Osborne and Clint stare at each other. Then Clint shoots Osborne. But, NO! Personal force field! Clint is made of fail! Then Clint says he is going to throw Ozzy out the window.

Page 25: Magically, Ares appears. He throws Clint through the window Oh, the irony! But wait (even again)! The window doesn't break. Guess Clint's threat to good old Ozzy was just bluster.

^^^^^

There are too many 'wait' moments in this story. Too many 'luck' moments. And way too many characters who are NOT introduced. Not introduced by name, and not being any part of the story except to magically appear at the moment Bendis needs to make a story change or point.

Who is the woman Clint sleeps with? Is it Mockingbird? Who are the characters who make appearances in the story, yet go un-named? Which Captain America is this? Spider-Man and Spider-Woman are obvious. Is Ms. Marvel still calling herself Ms. Marvel? Who is the flying guy with the 'S' emblem? We know it can't be Superman. Superman is published by DC, not by Disney Comics.

In writing adventure stories, it is a cheat to have chance favor the protagonist. It was a cheat to have the fire/energy/whateveritwas blast not hit Clint because the force field just happened to happen just then. It was also a cheat to have Clint still have the lucky break of still getting to Osborne after the force fields went up. Just as it also was a cheat for Ares to sneak up behind Clint on the penultimate page.

"Every comic is somebody's first comic." So said someone years ago. If this was my first comic, I wouldn't see any reason to come back for more. Wouldn't know who or what about anything. Even with prior comic book experience, if this was someone's first Disney Comic story, they'd be lost. And if someone hadn't read any Disney comics in 5 years, they'd still be totally lost as to what is going on. This is pretty poor storytelling.

Start at 6 (because it's Bendis, remember; I normally start at 8). Subtract 1 for crappy storytelling by the artist through most of the book (although he did a pretty good job on pages 13-16. Subtract 1 for the annoying green coloring on pages 1 and 2. So 4.

4...a pretty lame comic book. Unless you are a Bendis fan, an Avengers fan, or a Marvel zuvembie, you don't need this comic.

^^^^^

Norman Osborn is in no way related to Ozzy Osbourne. The name Ozzy Osbourne was used here for comedic effect; I found it funny, even if you didn't.

This review was originally intended to be posted 24 hours ago, but I'm old, man. I got tired and took a nap.

*Standard fluorescent tube lights are size T-12. The newer fluorescent tube lights are size T-8. The number after the 'T' is the number of eighths-of-an-inch, so T-12 equals 1.5 inches, and T-8 equals 1 inch. (US measurements, naturally.) For some reason, the newer lighting gives off more red light. If you have a sunburn, it looks horrifically bad under the new lights.
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Postby Punchy » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:08 pm

A lot of your complaints are really odd. You fixate on weird things. Sound effects? Lighting? Typos? These do not a bad comic make. This may be a bad book, but it's not because of tiny niggles.

Maybe you should change your name to Odd Man!

I haven't got my books yet, going in tomorrow, hopefully this won't have sold out.

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Postby Chris » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:11 pm

Punchy wrote:Djurdjevic talks about his style change here:

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=22874

He says he did the issue in 9 days, which is pretty phenomenal.


That's amazing. And moreso because it actually still looks good despite the short time it took!

I'd love for him to do an ongoing.
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Postby 3MJ » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:31 pm

I think Old Mans review is the worst review of anything I've ever read/heard/seen ever.

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