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Review Group Week 200 - INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #21

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thefourthman
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Postby thefourthman » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:16 pm

Old Man wrote:Hey, the set up was there, I took it.

Nothing personal. I'd do it to Punchy.

I'd do it to Starlord.

's how I roll, Yo.


but I thought I was special. At least that's what you told me last night. I feel so USED! :cry:

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Postby Punchy » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:16 pm

thefourthman wrote:You don't either, you only like Bendis team books.


I like his solo books too :P

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Postby Old Man » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:18 pm

thefourthman wrote:but I thought I was special. At least that's what you told me last night. I feel so USED! :cry:


If I was with you last night, you'd still feel used next week.
.
.
I was perfectly content before I was born.
.
.

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Postby thefourthman » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:18 pm

Old Man wrote:If I was with you last night, you'd still feel used next week.

Well I have had to shit a lot today.

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Postby sdsichero » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:38 pm

thefourthman wrote:Well I have had to shit a lot today.


Too much Chinese food?

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Postby doombug » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:24 pm

Invincible Iron Man #21

So I have a very big man crush on Matt Fraction. I just wanted to admit that right off the bat. Civil War hands down made me hate Tony Stark, Matt Fraction and Robert Downey Jr made me love him.

With that said, issue #21 is second part of the disassembled storyline where Tony is being rebuilt and his mind has retreated to a safe place. The safe place seems to be an analogue for his origins as the iron man.

Meanwhile on the outside we view Tony's plan which he seems to have fully mapped out knowing this would happen. Pepper does her best to graps what she has to do with th help of a very old friend of Tony's showing up. It seems that with only 1 page Fraction completely understands Steve Rogers as a character who is able to forgive his old friend for the crap he pulled 3 years ago.

The art is as beautiful as ever and the character moments which their are many is great. Not to mention just how much Fraction packs into each issue.

Story: 9
Art: 9

Over all: 9
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Postby Punchy » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:23 am

Invincible Iron Man #21 - 'Stark: Disassembled Part 2, Digging In The Dirt' - Fraction, Larroca and D'Armata

Story - Iron Man in a Coma I know, oh, it's really serious. Heh, anyway, for a book that didn't really have Iron Man in it, this was very good issue of Iron Man. I've long been a big fan of Tony Stark, he was my 2nd favourite Marvel hero after Spider-Man when I was a kid, and I was kind of disheartened when suddenly 90% of the fanbase hated him with a passion previously only reserved for Vibe and Maggott. He was still a hero! Director Of SHIELD was a good book! Cap was wrong! This is why I was kind of perturbed when people seemed to jump back on Tony's side when Fraction and Larroca launched IIM, saying it was redeeming him, I didn't think Tony needed to be redeemed at all, he was still a hero, he was the hero.

But nevertheless, Fraction impressed me, he really gets Tony Stark, and managed to incorporate quite a few of the best elements of the Iron Man movie. World's Most Wanted was one of the best 12-issue stories I have ever read, it never let up, and built into a fantastic climax. And it's here where we pick up in Stark: Disassembled, Tony is in 'a persistent vegetative state' and it's up to an assortment of his friends and colleagues to bring him back. This is an Iron Man story that's light on action (which is fine, we've just had 12 issues of straight chase scenes) but big on character, and big on the science, and it's developing nicely.

This issue has 2 concurrent threads, firstly, there's some quite odd scenes inside Tony's mind, he's in a Desert with his Mother and Father, digging for his old armour, but being attacked by nighmarish Starktech designs. These scenes are odd, deliberately so, and contain a few Fraction tics and cliches that grate me a little, but I like them, the metaphor seems to be a bit heavy handed in how Tony deals with his demons, but still, I'm intrigued as to what it all precisely means and how it dovetails with things in 'the real world'.

Because in the real world, it's a Mighty Marvel Team-Up as many characters come together in an attempt to revive Tony. Thor, Bucky Cap, Black Widow, Maria Hill, War Machine and even Steve Rogers. Yes, it's a little annoying that Steve is showing up before Reborn is over, but we all knew it was happening, and his involvement here is very well done. It just brought a smile to my face to see him up and alive again, the Marvel Universe lost something when he died, and with Steve around... it seems a lot more positive, Steve's there... and we know Tony is definitely coming back. And it seems Pepper Potts knows that too. Pepper is the emotional heart of this issue, and in many ways this book as a whole. In #20 she expressed anger that Tony gets to come back but her husband, Happy Hogan doesn't, and that's developed here, as she writes a letter to Tony. Who would have known that Pepper Potts would be one of the most interesting, most human characters in the Marvel Universe in 2009?

Tony does show up, in a way, in a pre-recorded 'Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you are my only hope' message, telling the assorted heroes what the hell to do, it's a lot of complicated pseudo-science (although knowing Fraction, it might be actual science), about Extremis, and repulsor tech. What it basically boils down to is Thor smashing Mjolnir into Cap's shield and channeling the lightning into Tony. The double page spread where Don Blake becomes Thor and does the deed is a thing to behold, but I actually preferred the quieter moment when both Steve and Bucky assure us the shield can take it. Fraction doesn't spoil what Brubaker is doing with the 2 Caps post Reborn, but it seems things are all cool. The upcoming Siege event has been marketed as being the first team-up between Iron Man, Captain America and Thor in like 7 years, but really it's in Invincible Iron Man that's the first one, even though one is in a Coma.

But this isn't all happy-clappy heroes getting along and helping eachother out, there is a threat here, Madam Masque, one of Tony's ex-girlfriends and currently ensconced in Osborn's regime and boinking the Hood, still wants Tony dead, and has hired The Ghost, an old Iron Man villain and current Thunderbolt to do the deed. I love how Ghost has been developed in Tbolts, firstly by Andy Diggle and now by Jeff Parker, he's a truly creepy character with a unique motivation (Corporate terrorist) who has no loyalties to anyone, I'm glad to see him showing up here and posing a serious thread. Madame Masque's role is still interesting, the issue where she fights Tony was probably the most powerful chapter of World's Most Wanted, and I love how Fraction is building his own little corner of Iron Man's world. And who would have thought a phonecall could be a decent cliffhanger?

When it comes down to it, this may not be the Iron Man comic you're expecting, it's light on action, but it's still full of ideas, and that's what Iron Man has always been, a book about ideas. The Coma Dream sequences may be a bit pretentious and elliptical, but that's more than made up for by the fun of seeing so many classic heroes work together, the emotional centre of Pepper, and the revived threat of Ghost. I can see why some people may not like Fraction's take on Tony, but I love it, and hope it can keep up the pace.

Art - Salvador Larroca has come in for quite a lot of criticism for his art on this book, his new style is accused of being tracing, but I think more accurately it's just him basing the characters on actors, he draws them fully. I still really like his style, it may not be as strong as when he first came on the scene or the lovely painted style he used on X-Treme X-Men, but it's strong, and has provided a consistent look for the book since #1. My only problem is some of the computer generated backgrounds look a little off, the scene with Masque and Ghost in New York have obvious photos in the background. But that's Frank D'Armata's colours rather than Larroca. Oh yeah, and Larroca and Rian Hughes' covers for this arc are fucking amazing. Sleek, modern and oh so very Iron Man.

Best Line - 'Because Iron Man is in trouble, And we're all going to bring him back' That's why we needed Steve Rogers back!

8/10

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Postby Starlord » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:02 am

great reviews guys.

Punchy, got a couple of questions for you:

You say Iron Man wasn't really in this issue, but Tony is in this issue. The stuff going on in his own mind was pretty significant. Since Tony Stark IS Iron Man, isn't it safe to say that Iron Man was in this issue? Or is it the armor you enjoy more than the character? (Seriously not trying to hassle you on this, I'm just curious)

Also, how can you say Tony was a hero during the Civil War when it was pretty obvious that even HE couldn't stand himself by the end of it. If he actually still believed in what he had done, do you think he would have blamed himself for Steve's death?
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Postby Punchy » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:10 am

starlord wrote:great reviews guys.

Punchy, got a couple of questions for you:

You say Iron Man wasn't really in this issue, but Tony is in this issue. The stuff going on in his own mind was pretty significant. Since Tony Stark IS Iron Man, isn't it safe to say that Iron Man was in this issue? Or is it the armor you enjoy more than the character? (Seriously not trying to hassle you on this, I'm just curious)

Also, how can you say Tony was a hero during the Civil War when it was pretty obvious that even HE couldn't stand himself by the end of it. If he actually still believed in what he had done, do you think he would have blamed himself for Steve's death?


I never said he wasn't in the issue, Tony was in the issue. I said there wasn't much Iron Man in the issue, and there wasn't. This was all about Tony. And Tony isn't necessarily Iron Man, Rhodey was Iron Man too :P

And Iron Man was right, Registration was a good idea, Captain America acted childishly and in a reactionary way, almost all the violence in Civil War was caused by the Anti Side.

And Tony was fine post-Civil War, in Mighty, in DoS, in the first arc of Invincible, he was in a positive place. The whole redemption that supposedly happened in this book is unnecessary, he saved the world multiple times during and after Civil War, Luke Cage and Wolverine didn't really.

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Postby ****** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:13 am

Punchy wrote:And hey, it was IIM #21 which got you into a price tizzy Amlah, you thought it was $3.99, when it wasn't!


I gotta say after reading #20, my tizzy was justified. Charging an extra dollar for a saga recap was total bullshit.

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Postby Punchy » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:15 am

amlah6 wrote:I gotta say after reading #20, my tizzy was justified. Charging an extra dollar for a saga recap was total bullshit.


Yeah, that was a bit of a jip, especially since they put it online for free a week later.

But I suppose they were doing it in the knowledge that a lot of new readers would come on for the new arc. It was a pretty well-written recap though, as recaps go.

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Postby Starlord » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:23 am

Punchy wrote:I never said he wasn't in the issue, Tony was in the issue. I said there wasn't much Iron Man in the issue, and there wasn't. This was all about Tony. And Tony isn't necessarily Iron Man, Rhodey was Iron Man too :P

And Iron Man was right, Registration was a good idea, Captain America acted childishly and in a reactionary way, almost all the violence in Civil War was caused by the Anti Side.

And Tony was fine post-Civil War, in Mighty, in DoS, in the first arc of Invincible, he was in a positive place. The whole redemption that supposedly happened in this book is unnecessary, he saved the world multiple times during and after Civil War, Luke Cage and Wolverine didn't really.


I know what your saying but I can't buy the "Rhodey was Iron Man too" thought process. I mean Dick Grayson is Batman right now, but let's face it, when someone wants to read Batman, they want to read about Bruce Wayne.

And registration was NOT a good idea. In fact, if Tony hadn't been so quick on his feet, Osborne would have gotten hold of every secret identity in the world. What kind of cluster-fuck would that have been?

Right or wrong, they made Tony the heavy in Civil War. In the end I think it payed off, actually, but the redemption of Tony Stark was needed. (Granted this is just my opinion and not the views of Marvel nor it's parent company, Disney)
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Postby thefourthman » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:24 am

Punchy wrote:I never said he wasn't in the issue, Tony was in the issue. I said there wasn't much Iron Man in the issue, and there wasn't. This was all about Tony. And Tony isn't necessarily Iron Man, Rhodey was Iron Man too :P

And Iron Man was right, Registration was a good idea, Captain America acted childishly and in a reactionary way, almost all the violence in Civil War was caused by the Anti Side.

And Tony was fine post-Civil War, in Mighty, in DoS, in the first arc of Invincible, he was in a positive place. The whole redemption that supposedly happened in this book is unnecessary, he saved the world multiple times during and after Civil War, Luke Cage and Wolverine didn't really.

:shock:
ITT: Punchy reveals that he has never actually read a comic before.

I won't get into the semantics of which side was right in Civil War. I won't get into why Cap was right and why the current status quo in the MU is proof that he was right. However, the registration side attacked heroes for being heroes and often put the goals of registration above the safety of the common MU citizen. Tony was an ass in Civil War and was majorly plotted to be a villain. Yes, he thought he was right, so did Reed and they were both dead wrong and super assholes for the way they went about their business in Civil War. The anti reg side was not killing their fucking buddies for some stupid and dangerous law.

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Postby Punchy » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:29 am

thefourthman wrote::shock:
ITT: Punchy reveals that he has never actually read a comic before.

I won't get into the semantics of which side was right in Civil War. I won't get into why Cap was right and why the current status quo in the MU is proof that he was right. However, the registration side attacked heroes for being heroes and often put the goals of registration above the safety of the common MU citizen. Tony was an ass in Civil War and was majorly plotted to be a villain. Yes, he thought he was right, so did Reed and they were both dead wrong and super assholes for the way they went about their business in Civil War. The anti reg side was not killing their fucking buddies for some stupid and dangerous law.


The current Dark Reign has shown Tony was right, that if the heroes didn't go along with Registration, it would have gone on regardless with someone like Osborn (probably Gyrich back then) in charge and everyone would be fucked. Registration is just a policy, and Tony was right to get involved and steer it to a better place than it would.

I just think most fans read Civil War with pre-conditioned 'Captain America is always right' goggles on and couldn't accept that it was more complex than that. Maybe it's because I'm not American and don't feel a patriotic connection to Steve, but to me, Iron Man was, and has been proven right. Dark Reign would have happened earlier if not for Tony.

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Postby Punchy » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:30 am

starlord wrote:I know what your saying but I can't buy the "Rhodey was Iron Man too" thought process. I mean Dick Grayson is Batman right now, but let's face it, when someone wants to read Batman, they want to read about Bruce Wayne.

And registration was NOT a good idea. In fact, if Tony hadn't been so quick on his feet, Osborne would have gotten hold of every secret identity in the world. What kind of cluster-fuck would that have been?

Right or wrong, they made Tony the heavy in Civil War. In the end I think it payed off, actually, but the redemption of Tony Stark was needed. (Granted this is just my opinion and not the views of Marvel nor it's parent company, Disney)


Rhodey was Iron Man for quite a while wasn't he? I can't remember, it was before I was born.

I don't see what Disney has to do with this, that's next week :P

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