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Review Group Week 205 - AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #617

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Postby guitarsmashley » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:18 am

thefourthman wrote:done in one can be interconnected... look at Planetary or Cooke's the Spirit.


But Dick doesn't like Done in Ones. Stories need the time to develop and be long for character development and masturbatory fantasies.
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Postby thefourthman » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:25 am

guitarsmashley wrote:But Dick doesn't like Done in Ones. Stories need the time to develop and be long for character development and masturbatory fantasies.

that's what is awesome about those and this issue being part of The Gauntlet... they allow for that and give the reader a fresh break. Who is Twigg complains about needing the other stuff fleshed out, that is EXACTLY the idea. Here is a satisfying story about these characters with an exposition climax and conclusion, but it is connected to the rest of the arc that is going on. It is what books in the seventies and eighties were really good at, here's all you need to know and just enough to hopefully hook you (by being awesome or by gnawing away at the back of your head) and bring you back for next issue.

I think for it to truly be a done in one for Old Man, it would have to be an origin story, because otherwise there is knowledge you would need to know about who this or that is and how their powers came to be, etc to understand all the nuances of the story.
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Postby ****** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:27 am

guitarsmashley wrote:But Dick doesn't like Done in Ones. Stories need the time to develop and be long for character development and masturbatory fantasies.


If it's not 7 years in the making it's shit, amirite?

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Postby Daringd » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:49 pm

I loved this issue, it really brings out what is so good about Spider-man. The dialogue was crisp and the art was spectacular.
10/10

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Postby sdsichero » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:39 pm

Old Man wrote:I 'borrowed' it. And it's so colorful! It's adds positive vibes to my negative posts! :P


I don't detect anything positive in your posts...

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Postby MistaT » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:42 pm

That was fucking BEAUTIFUL!!! :shock:

This was the single best issue of any comic I have read in a long time!! I almost cried at the end of Spidey's "I want you to win" speech, and by the end of the backup story, the tear finally dropped!!

Wow, I can't believe I'm gushing over a comic, but it was that DAMN good.

I think I'm gonna retract that second statement and say...

This was the best single issue comic I have EVER read.

I still got the rest of my stack to read, (I had picked this one up first) and I don't know if I feel like reading them because they will pale in comparison!

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Postby Old Man » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:05 pm

sdsichero wrote:I don't detect anything positive in your posts...


Bless your heart.
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Postby Punchy » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:49 am

The Amazing Spider-Man #617 - 'Rage Of The Rhino' and 'The Walk' - Kelly, Fiumura, Pulido, D'Auria and Hollingsworth

Story - Wow, that was probably the best single-issue Spider-Man story I have ever read. And I've been reading Spidey for over 10 years. Forget all the guff about whether he should be married, or whether Gwen Stacy is a slut or whether Joe Quesada hates you personally, this issue had everything you could ever really want in a Spider-Man story, there's humour, there's soap opera, there's a fight, there's intrigue, and there's pathos. My hats off to you Joe Kelly, you've been hit and miss for me so far, but this... this was knocked out of the park.

We're in the middle of the Gauntlet basically, which is Marvel systematically relaunching and retoolong some of Spider-Man's classic villains, we've had Doctor Octopus, the Chameleon, Electro, Sandman, and now it's the turn of the Rhino. But there's a difference here, the Rhino isn't the classic Rhino, he's a new dude, with a big axe who kills people with horses. The 'real' Rhino has gone straight, and this new guy has to kill him in order to 'ascend' and really become the Rhino. It's pretty messed up. Kelly manages to weave this in and out of the ongoing Gauntlet bit, Kid Kraven and Lady Kraven are behind this new Rhino, and Doctor Trama, a sort of in-Universe evil Lady Geoff Johns, who revamps villains is here, having previously shown up revamping Hammerhead. There's a lot of interesting stuff here, who is the new Rhino? What is the old Rhino going to do? There's a sequel coming up to this issue, where the Rhinos (Rhini?) will fight, and after this, I can't wait for it. Although knowing it's coming does undermine the end of this issue a little, but only a little.

But what of Peter Parker in all this? This is the Amazing Spider-Man, not the Amazing Rhino! Spider-Man is as you'd expect here, he's got girl problems (Norah and Michele, I'd still go with Norah over any of the other girls in the current book, she's funny), he's got job problems (Should he work for Jonah, or Urich?) and he's got being hit in the face with a horse problems. But there's more than that, Spider-Man's speech to Rhino at the end of the issue about actually wanting to win one really hit me hard. Spider-Man's life has always sucked, but even more so lately, Dark Reigns, One More Days, all that, you see how it's taken it's toll, and it's an effecting moment. It's the kind of thing only Spider-Man can really do, only Spider-Man can show that kind of weakness, but also a strength in believing that Aleksei can change. Basically, every thing you want in Spider-Man is here. Forget everything else, buy this issue and it will remind you why you like Spider-Man. There's always something deeper below the jokes, and Joe Kelly grasps that, even if the jokes are damn good.

This issue has a back-up story, which shows you how the original Rhino turned straight, it's a simple story, but I liked how it used Civil War to set it up, and how it was simply love that changed him, and the very thing that makes him so dangerous (he never stops moving forwards) which allowed him to turn over a new leaf. It adds another edge to the main story.

Art - I'm not familiar with Max Fiumura, I never managed to get a copy of Four Eyes, so this (and the back-up in #600) are my first experience of his art, and I'm a fan now, his angular style is perfect for Spider-Man, it's energetic, it's fun, and it's unique, and ever since Ditko, Spidey has thrived on unique artists. I can see Bachalo there, I can see Maleev sometimes, but it's wholly his own. More please.

The back up story is illustrated by Javier Pulido, who drew the previous Sandman arc, and it's just great for Spider-Man too, Matt Hollingsworth's flat colours make the story look like it's straight from the Silver Age, and lends Pulido's art an air of the Romita Snr.

This issue is a mix of classic Spidey style and something new, and both work, it just goes to show how versatile Spider-Man is.

Best Line - 'I'd just like one in the win column, you know? Just one'

This has to be a 9/10, Spider-Man has been damn consistent for the last year, each issue hovering around 7 or 8, but ever so often there's an issue that jumps up. Dan Slott and Marcos Martin have a tough job to live up to with Mysterio next week.

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Postby MistaT » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:04 am

Punchy wrote:The Amazing Spider-Man #617 - 'Rage Of The Rhino' and 'The Walk' - Kelly, Fiumura, Pulido, D'Auria and Hollingsworth

Story - Wow, that was probably the best single-issue Spider-Man story I have ever read. And I've been reading Spidey for over 10 years. Forget all the guff about whether he should be married, or whether Gwen Stacy is a slut or whether Joe Quesada hates you personally, this issue had everything you could ever really want in a Spider-Man story, there's humour, there's soap opera, there's a fight, there's intrigue, and there's pathos. My hats off to you Joe Kelly, you've been hit and miss for me so far, but this... this was knocked out of the park.

We're in the middle of the Gauntlet basically, which is Marvel systematically relaunching and retoolong some of Spider-Man's classic villains, we've had Doctor Octopus, the Chameleon, Electro, Sandman, and now it's the turn of the Rhino. But there's a difference here, the Rhino isn't the classic Rhino, he's a new dude, with a big axe who kills people with horses. The 'real' Rhino has gone straight, and this new guy has to kill him in order to 'ascend' and really become the Rhino. It's pretty messed up. Kelly manages to weave this in and out of the ongoing Gauntlet bit, Kid Kraven and Lady Kraven are behind this new Rhino, and Doctor Trama, a sort of in-Universe evil Lady Geoff Johns, who revamps villains is here, having previously shown up revamping Hammerhead. There's a lot of interesting stuff here, who is the new Rhino? What is the old Rhino going to do? There's a sequel coming up to this issue, where the Rhinos (Rhini?) will fight, and after this, I can't wait for it. Although knowing it's coming does undermine the end of this issue a little, but only a little.

But what of Peter Parker in all this? This is the Amazing Spider-Man, not the Amazing Rhino! Spider-Man is as you'd expect here, he's got girl problems (Norah and Michele, I'd still go with Norah over any of the other girls in the current book, she's funny), he's got job problems (Should he work for Jonah, or Urich?) and he's got being hit in the face with a horse problems. But there's more than that, Spider-Man's speech to Rhino at the end of the issue about actually wanting to win one really hit me hard. Spider-Man's life has always sucked, but even more so lately, Dark Reigns, One More Days, all that, you see how it's taken it's toll, and it's an effecting moment. It's the kind of thing only Spider-Man can really do, only Spider-Man can show that kind of weakness, but also a strength in believing that Aleksei can change. Basically, every thing you want in Spider-Man is here. Forget everything else, buy this issue and it will remind you why you like Spider-Man. There's always something deeper below the jokes, and Joe Kelly grasps that, even if the jokes are damn good.

This issue has a back-up story, which shows you how the original Rhino turned straight, it's a simple story, but I liked how it used Civil War to set it up, and how it was simply love that changed him, and the very thing that makes him so dangerous (he never stops moving forwards) which allowed him to turn over a new leaf. It adds another edge to the main story.

Art - I'm not familiar with Max Fiumura, I never managed to get a copy of Four Eyes, so this (and the back-up in #600) are my first experience of his art, and I'm a fan now, his angular style is perfect for Spider-Man, it's energetic, it's fun, and it's unique, and ever since Ditko, Spidey has thrived on unique artists. I can see Bachalo there, I can see Maleev sometimes, but it's wholly his own. More please.

The back up story is illustrated by Javier Pulido, who drew the previous Sandman arc, and it's just great for Spider-Man too, Matt Hollingsworth's flat colours make the story look like it's straight from the Silver Age, and lends Pulido's art an air of the Romita Snr.

This issue is a mix of classic Spidey style and something new, and both work, it just goes to show how versatile Spider-Man is.

Best Line - 'I'd just like one in the win column, you know? Just one'

This has to be a 9/10, Spider-Man has been damn consistent for the last year, each issue hovering around 7 or 8, but ever so often there's an issue that jumps up. Dan Slott and Marcos Martin have a tough job to live up to with Mysterio next week.
Great Review.

I'da given it 10/10 though.

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Postby thefourthman » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:20 am

Nice review Punchy.
Pull list: Afterlife with Archie, Bodies, Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, Coffin Hill, Dead Boy Detectives, The Fade Out, The Goon, Harley Quinn, Hinterkind, Iron Fist: The Living Weapon,The Maxx Maximized, Miracleman, Ms. Marvel, Multiversity, Rasputin, Rocket Raccoon, Sandman: Overture, Silver Surfer, The Walking Dead, Wonder Woman

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Postby GHERU » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:30 am

The Amazing Spider-Man #617

Even though I really enjoyed what Simon did with the Rhino in her Deadpool and Agent X runs, I never really cared about him. He was just a throwaway bad guy that was used when one needed an easy vilian to defeat in order to move a story forward.

Until now. Joe Kelly did a great job at something that I feel is missing in comics, redemption. Yes we have the Sandaman as a good guy (sometimes), Emma, and the Riddler, but even in those cases, the good guys continue to mistrust their motives. It was nice to see Spider-Man trust that The Rhino had reformed and want to help.

I know that I am usually in the minority when we see character growth / change in established characters, but the journey we take with the ride as the Rhino matures and decides to make more of his life.

This book was one in the win column
my only complaint is that I was not the world's biggest fan of the art, in either story. But the writing more than made up for it

9/10
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Postby Old Man » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:24 pm

MistaT wrote:Great Review.

I'da given it 10/10 though.


He can't. He had just backed himself into a corner saying he never gives a 10/10.
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Postby 48THRiLLS » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:30 pm

MistaT wrote:Great Review.

I'da given it 10/10 though.


He doesn't do 10's :P

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Postby 48THRiLLS » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:49 pm

Amazing Spider-Man #617
Since Spider-Man went thrice monthly I pretty much stopped reading, aside from one or two issues we have reviewed here. I was a little lost with some of the characters, like Michelle his roommate, Nora the reporter girl, and the Asian villain who was selling the new Rhino's services... but this was really good and those would be my only quibbles with this issue. I loved the opening monologue and the back and forth between Nora and Peter. I also found what Kelly is doing with Rhino pretty cool, except for the guy that wants to be the new Rhino, c'mon really? Who the hell dreams of being a b list villain, aim high yo. Despite a few characters I didn't know this was a very well written comic, you really do root for Rhino and sympathize with Peter about him wanting one in the win column. I have a bad feeling that Rhino will unfortunately lose all he has and go back to being a bad guy but I would like to see him stay as he is here for a while. This was also one of the best drawn comics I have reviewed here in a while, I have no recollection on seeing Max Fiumara's work anywhere but wow.

STORY - 9

ART - 10

OVERALL - 9

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Postby 48THRiLLS » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:52 pm

Just read Punchy's review... didn't know this was the same artist as Four Eyes... I remember liking that a lot... I think

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