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[statnut]

The guy he compares to the most on Baseball Reference is Juan Marchial. A Hall of Famer who never led in anything either.

#2 is Schilling.

His 3 and 4 and Kevin Brown and David Wells.

And for the record, Marichal led the league in ERA, Wins, and WHIP on several occassions. And was a 9 time AS.

[statnut]

It is to me.

Derek Jeter is consistently good and he's a definite HOFer.

Than you're just watering down the Hall of Fame. Whats next, gonna let John Kruk in? He was consistently good.

And I'd argue that Derek Jeter was better than "good".

[ReturnoftheMack]

Than you're just watering down the Hall of Fame. Whats next, gonna let John Kruk in? He was consistently good.

And I'd argue that Derek Jeter was better than "good".

When Ozzie Smith got in, the Hall of Fame became dead to me.

[ReturnoftheMack]

Wow! Farnsworth pitches another scoreless 8th.

[C20Percent]

Lets be fair: Glavine had one championship


Cy Youngs: Glavine 2, Mussina 0
20 win seasons: Glavine 5, Mussina 0
AS: Glavine 10, Mussina 5

And remember that Glavine pitched on the same team, never mind same league, as Greg Maddux in his prime. And John Smoltz.

I'm not averse to putting Glavine in the HOF. In regards to the Cy Young and All-Star Game appearances -- I'd put more stock in those categories if both Mussina and Glavine pitched in the same league (not to take away anything from Glavine).

And, to me (*sigh*) the Wins are tricky too. Mussina won 16 or more games 8 times in his career. Glavine won 16 or more games 8 times in his career. Mussina missed the 20 Win mark by 2 games or less 5 times in his career -- the same number of 20 Win Seasons as Glavine.

If Mussina can get to 300 Wins, which might be difficult as he'll have to give 4 more seasons (which incidentally is the number of seasons Glavine's got on him), then I think he's a HOF.

[MoneyMelon]

If Mussina can get to 300 Wins, which might be difficult as he'll have to give 4 more seasons (which incidentally is the number of seasons Glavine's got on him), then I think he's a HOF.

I think Mussina retires after this season, personally.

I've heard a lot of interviews with him and he's all but declared it.

[statnut]

When Ozzie Smith got in, the Hall of Fame became dead to me.

Best defensive SS of all time? Whats the issue? He's top 100 in hits and top 25 in stolen bases. Combine that with defensive superiority, and I have no problem with him in the HOF, weak bat or not.

[statnut]

I'm not averse to putting Glavine in the HOF. In regards to the Cy Young and All-Star Game appearances -- I'd put more stock in those categories if both Mussina and Glavine pitched in the same league (not to take away anything from Glavine).

.

Regardless, its how they were considered by both media, and their peers at the time. Which should say quite a bit.

[ReturnoftheMack]

Yankees win again!

[ReturnoftheMack]

Best defensive SS of all time? Whats the issue? He's top 100 in hits and top 25 in stolen bases. Combine that with defensive superiority, and I have no problem with him in the HOF, weak bat or not.

Too weak a bat.

Only hit over .300 once.

For all his defense, he was a liability on offense. Like Bill Mazeroski.

[MoneyMelon]

Too weak a bat.

Only hit over .300 once.

For all his defense, he was a liability on offense. Like Bill Mazeroski.

Compare him to the shortstops of his era, though.

[MoneyMelon]

Yankees win again!

7 straight win

The team's putting a nice streak together here.

[C20Percent]

Too weak a bat.

Only hit over .300 once.

For all his defense, he was a liability on offense. Like Bill Mazeroski.

Backflips = HOF

[The Juan Percenter]

Too weak a bat.

Only hit over .300 once.

For all his defense, he was a liability on offense. Like Bill Mazeroski.

Until the early 90s, SS who hit .255 and played solid defense were considered productive. Then Barry Larkin matured and new metrics were born. Seriously, the 15 years has been a golden age of SS.

I have no problem with Ozzie in the HOF. He was jobbed out of an MVP in 1987.

[statnut]

Compare him to the shortstops of his era, though.

Bingo. 15 time All-star says quite a bit too.