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Postby KillerShrike » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:29 am

I don't think they should put Vickie on Smackdown, but the reaction from the crowd if they hinted at it would be nuts. Other than Edge and maybe Orton, no one in the company gets more heat than her.

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Postby T-Roy Space Cowboy » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:54 am

KillerShrike wrote:I don't think they should put Vickie on Smackdown, but the reaction from the crowd if they hinted at it would be nuts. Other than Edge and maybe Orton, no one in the company gets more heat than her.


As already stated, she has a different kinda heat. Most refer to it as X-Pac heat, people dislike her performance, not her heel character. Randy Orton used to get this as did Edge, but both have turned that corner and are now classic heels, probably 2 of the best in the WWE in the last 25 years.

I don't know if they need to go the whole GM route anymore anyways, it's not a gimmick or storyline that is always needed. They usually are only really focused on one character/wrestler or group of characters/wrestlers. I know this would mean more McMahons on TV, but if it were Steph and Shane most of the time and just Vince every now and again, I would be completely cool with them doing the old Powers That Be angle where they are incharge of everything that is going on with the company.
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Postby rdrsfn82 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:35 pm

Master McNut wrote:As already stated, she has a different kinda heat. Most refer to it as X-Pac heat, people dislike her performance, not her heel character. Randy Orton used to get this as did Edge, but both have turned that corner and are now classic heels, probably 2 of the best in the WWE in the last 25 years.

I don't know if they need to go the whole GM route anymore anyways, it's not a gimmick or storyline that is always needed. They usually are only really focused on one character/wrestler or group of characters/wrestlers. I know this would mean more McMahons on TV, but if it were Steph and Shane most of the time and just Vince every now and again, I would be completely cool with them doing the old Powers That Be angle where they are incharge of everything that is going on with the company.


Exactly. I agree on both counts. She gets booed because she's terrible, not because she's a great heel. I also agree that it might be time to get rid of GMs and go back to what they used to do before hand. We don't always need a GM set up.
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Postby KillerShrike » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:40 pm

A negative reaction is a negative reaction. People hate Vickie, and are vocal about it. They boo when they see her. They cheer when she gets her comeuppance. Doesn't matter whether its "legit" or not. She gets heat most of the other heels only dream of.


Edit: Its like when when I was young and watched wrestling. I almost always rooted for the heels. However, I couldn't stand Ted Dibiasie because I thought the idea of him owning Virgil was ridiculous and insulting. Now which wrestler was really doing is job right, guys like Iron Sheik and Bobby Heenan, who I loved seing on screen, or Ted, who got me mad and I couldn't wait to see lose?

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Postby Deux » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:55 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:Exactly. I agree on both counts. She gets booed because she's terrible, not because she's a great heel. I also agree that it might be time to get rid of GMs and go back to what they used to do before hand. We don't always need a GM set up.


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Postby T-Roy Space Cowboy » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:18 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:Exactly. I agree on both counts. She gets booed because she's terrible, not because she's a great heel. I also agree that it might be time to get rid of GMs and go back to what they used to do before hand. We don't always need a GM set up.


To true, I agree the GM's need to go.
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Postby rdrsfn82 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:06 pm

KillerShrike wrote:A negative reaction is a negative reaction. People hate Vickie, and are vocal about it. They boo when they see her. They cheer when she gets her comeuppance. Doesn't matter whether its "legit" or not. She gets heat most of the other heels only dream of.


Edit: Its like when when I was young and watched wrestling. I almost always rooted for the heels. However, I couldn't stand Ted Dibiasie because I thought the idea of him owning Virgil was ridiculous and insulting. Now which wrestler was really doing is job right, guys like Iron Sheik and Bobby Heenan, who I loved seing on screen, or Ted, who got me mad and I couldn't wait to see lose?


People don't tune in to see people they hate because they think they are awful get what's coming to the, they tune in to see people that are good at being hated get their comeuppance.

Put it this way. If they built a PPV around Vickie it wouldn't sell. If they built a PPV around a heel HHH it would and has. That's why there's good heat and bad heat.
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Postby KillerShrike » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:23 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:People don't tune in to see people they hate because they think they are awful get what's coming to the, they tune in to see people that are good at being hated get their comeuppance.

Put it this way. If they built a PPV around Vickie it wouldn't sell. If they built a PPV around a heel HHH it would and has. That's why there's good heat and bad heat.


WWE doesn't care why people boo Vickie, just as long as they do.


The average fan wants to see the good guys win against the bad guys. And right now Vickie is one of the most over bad guy they have. The crowd goes nuts when she shows her face, just like they go nuts when she gets tombstoned or thrown out of the ring. She's a great heel, whether its based on "talent" or not. Its kind of ridiculous to argue otherwise, when all you have to do is listen to how the crowd reacts to her.

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Postby rdrsfn82 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:30 pm

KillerShrike wrote:WWE doesn't care why people boo Vickie, just as long as they do.


The average fan wants to see the good guys win against the bad guys. And right now Vickie is one of the most over bad guy they have. The crowd goes nuts when she shows her face, just like they go nuts when she gets tombstoned or thrown out of the ring. She's a great heel, whether its based on "talent" or not. Its kind of ridiculous to argue otherwise, when all you have to do is listen to how the crowd reacts to her.


The crowd hates her, but it isn't the kind of hate that sells. If there was nothing but Vickie types running around they'd do even worse numbers than they currently do. When you have good heels it makes the faces look better. Who has Vickie helped make look better? In what way has the booing of her led to any sort of bump in PPV sales or increased the number of viewer of Smackdown? Heels don't exist to be booed, they exist to sell tickets. In the 80's people booed the Horsemen, but they tuned in to see what they would do and the showed up to do it. In the 90's people booed the NWO, but they bought their stuff and paid to see the PPVs to watch them lose. Then in the end they were run into the ground and started getting negative heat and folks stopped tuning in which was the start of the fall of WCW.

You don't want to put out product that makes your fans want to turn the channel or makes them not want to watch the PPV. You want to put out product that entertains. Vicky doesn't do that and she doesn't sell. No one tunes in to see her and no one shows up to boo her. If she was doing a good job people would be tuning in to see her the way they did McMahon and Bischoff in the 90's or guys like Heyman and Regal in recent years.
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Postby KillerShrike » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:36 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote: Heels don't exist to be booed.



Yes they do. They exist to get booed and to be rooted against. Which is how the crowd reacts to her.

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Postby rdrsfn82 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:48 pm

KillerShrike wrote:Yes they do. They exist to get booed and to be rooted against. Which is how the crowd reacts to her.


No they don't. Everything in wrestling is there to make money. Just like all other forms of entertainment. Sure there are books and movies and indy promotions that are there for mostly artistic purposes, but if you are WWE or Random House or Universal you do it for money. That's why they are there. They will sometimes take a risk on something less commercial to garner some good will with an artist or performer, but most of what they do is to make money. Heels in wrestling are there so that faces can topple them and send the crowd home happy. A good heel is one that plays that role while entertaining the fans enough to make them want to come and see it play out. If you think back over the history of wrestling all the major heels you remember are guys that did that well. Ric Flair, HBK, HHH, Scott Steiner, The Dudley Boys, Kevin Nash, and on and on. Guys like X-Pac or glacier got booed more than those guys, but they didn't sell tickets and aren't classic heels, just guys that irritated the fans and had minimal impact on the business (although X-Pac had a large impact as the Lightning/1-2-3 Kid, but I digress).

Heels are just a cog in the money making machine that is the WWE and Vicky is a busted cog.
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Postby Carrie » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:51 pm

TheScantronman wrote:Cole has gotten a lot better on the mic and I like him a lot on RAW.


I tivo'd RAW, haven't watched yet, but I did NOT like like JR on SmackDown. :?

Also, I expected something along these lines, since there was no way they were going to leave both belts on one show.

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Postby KillerShrike » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:07 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:Heels are just a cog in the money making machine that is the WWE and Vicky is a busted cog.



Since her job is to get people to boo her and they do, more than almost any other heel on the roster, I wouldn't call her busted.

Do you honestly think WWE is unhappy with the reaction Vickie gets? Of course not. They keep having her interfere for a reason, because they know it helps make whoever she's screwing with look that much better, and when she finally gets what's coming to her the payoff will be that much better.

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Postby Lord Simian » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:16 pm

Destiny Frankenstein wrote:CGI Jack Tunney plz.


I am quoting this since everyone else seems to have missed it. :)

I am hereby endorsing this request.
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Postby NedPepper » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:02 pm

KillerShrike wrote:A negative reaction is a negative reaction. People hate Vickie, and are vocal about it. They boo when they see her. They cheer when she gets her comeuppance. Doesn't matter whether its "legit" or not. She gets heat most of the other heels only dream of.


Edit: Its like when when I was young and watched wrestling. I almost always rooted for the heels. However, I couldn't stand Ted Dibiasie because I thought the idea of him owning Virgil was ridiculous and insulting. Now which wrestler was really doing is job right, guys like Iron Sheik and Bobby Heenan, who I loved seing on screen, or Ted, who got me mad and I couldn't wait to see lose?


There is a difference in the "heat" a wrestler can get. X-Pac heat, which is also reffered to as "Bossman heat" is the kind of heat that makes people change the channel. Or if they're at a live event, boo them and then go get something to eat and a souvenir.

Bobby Heenan and Dibiase or examples of guys who you would pay to see get beat up. That's great heat.

Triple H has had it. Ric Flair had it at times (but he was still popular even as a heel.) Jake Roberts had it. Vince McMahon and Eric Bischoff both had it. People booed Vince and they wanted to see Steve Austin kick his ass. That is what makes a good heel.

Right now, Edge has it completely. It's almost old school. He is the best heel in the WWE. And Jericho is starting to get it too. I love a great heel.

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