The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[rdrsfn82]

Yeah. The WWE really ruined him by stereotyping him and having him do the "Holla" crap.

I agree 100%. It makes him sound retarded. It's kind of like when they made Booker illiterate. Or when they gave Shelton a stereotypical sitcom mother. Or Koko B Ware. If only there was a pattern to these things......

[jza1218]

I agree 100%. It makes him sound retarded. It's kind of like when they made Booker illiterate. Or when they gave Shelton a stereotypical sitcom mother. Or Koko B Ware. If only there was a pattern to these things......

I loved High Energy!

[Deux]

I've never had a problem commenting on 411mania, but I submitted one about how Punk's win is, by definition, not ironic but symmetrical. And then I called the IWC a pack of titless Alanis Morrissettes. Was that too edgy for them? I posted it this morning and 7 more comments made it on the article whose timestamp postdated mine.

[rdrsfn82]

I just saw that RAW did a great rating of 4.1 for the overrun during the JBL/Punk match. I think that will carry over to next week and we'll see one of the highest ratings in a while.

[rdrsfn82]

Well based on Smackdown it looks like Vicky might be going away soon. I think that's for the best.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

I've never had a problem commenting on 411mania, but I submitted one about how Punk's win is, by definition, not ironic but symmetrical. And then I called the IWC a pack of titless Alanis Morrissettes. Was that too edgy for them? I posted it this morning and 7 more comments made it on the article whose timestamp postdated mine.

Insulting the IWC in the 411manie comments section never ever gets old. That place is rivaled only by youtube and gamefaqs for the most insipid posts and comments ever award, except that the youtube comments section almost crosses that line where it's so stupid it becomes entertaining, especially the racist comments, or my personal favorite, whenever there's a video of a wrestler in some kind of actual interview, where someone always posts, every time, that the wrestler should perform his finishing move on the interviewer ("Warrior should give Sean Hannity the gorilla press.) It's so not funny that it's funny.

[NedPepper]

Kevin Nash got booed more as OZ than as Diesel but that doesn't mean he was a better heel as OZ.

X-Pac got booed more than Edge and Christian. That doesn't mean he was a better heel. If you put out a best of X-Pac DVD and an best of E&C DVD the E&C one would sell a ton more copies. An Orton DVD would outsell the X-Pac one. In fact a best of Lance Storm DVD would outsell the X-Pac DVD, and he never got nearly the reaction that X-Pac got.

A good heel is a draw. A bad heel is not a draw. A bad heel gets heat because people don't want to watch them. A good heel gets booed because people want to watch them lose. If Vickey was removed from Smackdown and all of her promos were handled by Edge and Chavo the show would get the same rating, if not better. If Vicky stayed and all of Edge and Chavo's moments were handled by Ryder and Hawkins and Bam the show would lose ratings. That's how you can tell who is a good heel and who is just hated for sucking.

Exactly. Very well put.

[KillerShrike]

Well based on Smackdown it looks like Vicky might be going away soon. I think that's for the best.

Far more likely she and Edge are setting up Hunter for the Great American Bash. I doubt WWE is done with one of their most over heels just yet.

[rdrsfn82]

Far more likely she and Edge are setting up Hunter for the Great American Bash. I doubt WWE is done with one of their most over heels just yet.

She's not over. I don't know what else I can say to show that to you. Over means people like your character or hate your character for the right reasons and would buy merchandise or a DVD or a PPV based on your character. No one is buying Vicky gear, in fact I'm pretty sure she doesn't have any, and no one is buying a Vicky DVD.

Last night seemed like a send off to the character, or at least a send off to La Familia. Edge may keep Rider and Hawkins around, although that looked unlikely as well, but he's done with Vicky. Like someone else said she doesn't seem to fit if they are going to go with big time stars on the show. Her personality isn't big enough or strong enough to handle the likes of HHH, or even MVP based on that great opening segment last night (MVP seemed right at home cutting promos with HHH, I'd love to see those two either team or feud now). If I had to guess I'd say they are going to have her go through a story line that's similar to Jan on The Office. She'll start acting more desperate and crazy each week and eventually get fired for it.

Maybe she'll be right back with him in a couple weeks and I'm wrong and you are right, but to me it seemed like a way to end the relationship and you couldn't get her off TV without breaking them up. At least you couldn't get her off TV with no logical reason to talk about her without breaking them up.

[KillerShrike]

She's not over. I don't know what else I can say to show that to you. Over means people like your character or hate your character for the right reasons and would buy merchandise or a DVD or a PPV based on your character. No one is buying Vicky gear, in fact I'm pretty sure she doesn't have any, and no one is buying a Vicky DVD.

You can't show me anything, because I'll always believe my own eyes and ears over someone else's bias. As for this merchandising argument, its pretty weak. JBL was a great heel, how did his merchandise sell? Does he even have any? Umaga is over as a heel. You think it matters to WWE how many t-shirts he sells? However:

If they ever put out an "Evil GMs" DVD she'll be featured prominently, because Vickie is over.

When Edge gets his eventual 3 disc tribute DVD this storyline will also be featured prominently, because Vickie is over.

[rdrsfn82]

You can't show me anything, because I'll always believe my own eyes and ears over someone else's bias. As for this merchandising argument, its pretty weak. JBL was a great heel, how did his merchandise sell? Does he even have any? Umaga is over as a heel. You think it matters to WWE how many t-shirts he sells? However:

If they ever put out an "Evil GMs" DVD she'll be featured prominently, because Vickie is over.

When Edge gets his eventual 3 disc tribute DVD this storyline will also be featured prominently, because Vickie is over.

If they did an Evil GMs DVD it wouldn't sell. People buy DVDs for good matches and good stories about behind the scenes things. No one buys to see GMs, not even if it was all about Regal, Foley, and Flair as GM.

When Edge gets a tribute disc it will not feature Vicky in a key role. It will show this era because of his matches, but it won't focus on the backstage scenes with her. If anything she'll be in a section where it talks about his many on screen romances along with Lita and others. His DVD will focus more on his tag team days (assuming WWE doesn't hold a grudge against Christian which is possible) and his personal greatness. This will be a footnote that covers one year or so of his career. The focus will be on his feud with The Undertaker and Dave, not his relationship with Vicky.

Again you are misusing the term "over". "Over" means you can sell the character to sell PPVs, merchandise, and/or DVDs. Umaga is a wasted talent and nowhere near over. He's a good heel, but no one thinks of him as a legit top title contender. He should be, but he isn't. As for JBL, he doesn't sell a ton of merchandise, but a JBL DVD would sell well and he also sells PPVs, hence him being in main events and having long title reigns. I'd also argue he's more over and better used as an announcer, but that's another argument.

You can love the Vickie character all you want, but don't try to say she's "over". She's hated and booed, but she doesn't increase interest in the product and she doesn't sell anything. The WWE is about money. If every heel was someone the crowd hated watching they wouldn't watch the programs. Hopefully we are near the end of her time on TV. A good heel is someone you love to hate, not someone you hate.

[Deux]

People buy DVDs for good matches and good stories about behind the scenes things.

I stopped there, because your argument is voided by the sales of the HardyZZZZ DVD.

[rdrsfn82]

I stopped there, because your argument is voided by the sales of the HardyZZZZ DVD.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

If they did an Evil GMs DVD it wouldn't sell. People buy DVDs for good matches and good stories about behind the scenes things. No one buys to see GMs, not even if it was all about Regal, Foley, and Flair as GM.

When Edge gets a tribute disc it will not feature Vicky in a key role. It will show this era because of his matches, but it won't focus on the backstage scenes with her. If anything she'll be in a section where it talks about his many on screen romances along with Lita and others. His DVD will focus more on his tag team days (assuming WWE doesn't hold a grudge against Christian which is possible) and his personal greatness. This will be a footnote that covers one year or so of his career. The focus will be on his feud with The Undertaker and Dave, not his relationship with Vicky.

Again you are misusing the term "over". "Over" means you can sell the character to sell PPVs, merchandise, and/or DVDs. Umaga is a wasted talent and nowhere near over. He's a good heel, but no one thinks of him as a legit top title contender. He should be, but he isn't. As for JBL, he doesn't sell a ton of merchandise, but a JBL DVD would sell well and he also sells PPVs, hence him being in main events and having long title reigns. I'd also argue he's more over and better used as an announcer, but that's another argument.

You can love the Vickie character all you want, but don't try to say she's "over". She's hated and booed, but she doesn't increase interest in the product and she doesn't sell anything. The WWE is about money. If every heel was someone the crowd hated watching they wouldn't watch the programs. Hopefully we are near the end of her time on TV. A good heel is someone you love to hate, not someone you hate.

WWE knows nothing about what people want. They have a pretty good idea of what the lowest common denominator of fans will accept, and they are good at milking these same fans for as much money as possible. This is why their audience has dwindled to about half of what it was ten years ago but their profits have actually gone up. Sure, it's a profitable and effective way to do business, but it sucks for the discerning fan who wants to see something other than same formulaic matches and feuds day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. Also, imagine how much money they could make if they utilized the same marketing tactics and ran the same schedules that they do now and yet put out an exciting product like they did during the attitude era and had double the audience. But WWE has no competition, so they just play it safe and conservative, which makes for boring television.

That's really their problem. They know that they can take Vicki and have her play the same tired evil boss role that's been being done since Vince first did it with Stone Cold, and it will be enough to keep their ratings roughly the same, though they still drop year to year, and it will keep people buying tickets to shows, so they do that. What they should ACTUALLY be doing is giving more TV time to the people the crowd responds to most, but they are so conservative with their booking that they are about a year behind the crowd in that respect.

[rdrsfn82]

WWE knows nothing about what people want. They have a pretty good idea of what the lowest common denominator of fans will accept, and they are good at milking these same fans for as much money as possible. This is why their audience has dwindled to about half of what it was ten years ago but their profits have actually gone up. Sure, it's a profitable and effective way to do business, but it sucks for the discerning fan who wants to see something other than same formulaic matches and feuds day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. Also, imagine how much money they could make if they utilized the same marketing tactics and ran the same schedules that they do now and yet put out an exciting product like they did during the attitude era and had double the audience. But WWE has no competition, so they just play it safe and conservative, which makes for boring television.

That's really their problem. They know that they can take Vicki and have her play the same tired evil boss role that's been being done since Vince first did it with Stone Cold, and it will be enough to keep their ratings roughly the same, though they still drop year to year, and it will keep people buying tickets to shows, so they do that. What they should ACTUALLY be doing is giving more TV time to the people the crowd responds to most, but they are so conservative with their booking that they are about a year behind the crowd in that respect.

That's a whole other argument and I agree with you. They should spend more time focused on guys like CM Punk and Kennedy and building them up as stars of the future. They should also stick to simple classic storylines while letting the ring work be the selling point. But they instead spend a ton of time trying to recreate old storylines and use the wrestling as an afterthought far too often. Having the same five feuds over and over and over again while ignoring the young guys is stupid. Hopefully this last RAW was a start down the right path and not a one time thing.