The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[MoneyMelon]

Yeah, but he's got nothing.

He had a workout for scouts earlier this year, and apparently he was very underwhelming.

Yeah, that's why he's out in some independent league. Anybody with real talent is in an affiliated league.

Sidney Ponson pitched for the Long Island ducks, for example.

[AaronW]

I hear he has a wacky delivery. Is his arm going to hold up even after he comes back?

[MoneyMelon]

I hear he has a wacky delivery. Is his arm going to hold up even after he comes back?

Long term?

Who knows.

Some guys are built for that kind of thing, some aren't.

But as long as it isn't a shoulder problem, I don't see the need for Nationals fans to panic.

[Doc Jon]

Long term?

Who knows.

Some guys are built for that kind of thing, some aren't.

But as long as it isn't a shoulder problem, I don't see the need for Nationals fans to panic.

Except that he did that after half a season in the majors. One would think he needs to tweak the delivery. Plus the 18 month rehab and so on. A lot of questions are up in the air.

How tough is this kid mentally?
Can he tweak his delivery and be effective?
How will he handle the surgery and rehab?

I'd be a little worried.

[MoneyMelon]

Except that he did that after half a season in the majors. One would think he needs to tweak the delivery. Plus the 18 month rehab and so on. A lot of questions are up in the air.

How tough is this kid mentally?
Can he tweak his delivery and be effective?
How will he handle the surgery and rehab?

I'd be a little worried.

Any time somebody has surgery, there's a reason to be concerned.

But the fact that he blew out his elbow after getting to the majors isn't really that much of a red flag (in regard to the timing). It's happened to other guys early in their careers in the minors who have gone on to have good careers.

Honestly, I think messing with his delivery could probably cause more problems. He's been pitching like this his whole life. Changing it all of a sudden opens to door for other problems since he'd likely be suddenly putting more stress on parts of his arm that aren't conditioned for the workload.

As for his mental state, this is a kid who had the most amount of hype around a prospect I've ever seen and he excelled under the pressure and expectations. I think that speaks to a certain kind of mental toughness.

The Nats just need to be cautious (as they have been with him) and let him rehab and not rush him back.

Like I said, if this was a shoulder thing, I'd be a lot more worried. Very few guys come back the same after that.

[Doc Jon]

Any time somebody has surgery, there's a reason to be concerned.

But the fact that he blew out his elbow after getting to the majors isn't really that much of a red flag (in regard to the timing). It's happened to other guys early in their careers in the minors who have gone on to have good careers.

Honestly, I think messing with his delivery could probably cause more problems. He's been pitching like this his whole life. Changing it all of a sudden opens to door for other problems since he'd likely be suddenly putting more stress on parts of his arm that aren't conditioned for the workload.

As for his mental state, this is a kid who had the most amount of hype around a prospect I've ever seen and he excelled under the pressure and expectations. I think that speaks to a certain kind of mental toughness.

The Nats just need to be cautious (as they have been with him) and let him rehab and not rush him back.

Like I said, if this was a shoulder thing, I'd be a lot more worried. Very few guys come back the same after that.

I get what you're saying.

I'd still be very worried as a Nats fan...

[Chris]

I think Strasburg is gonna have some troubles even once he gets back.

Look at Liriano..

He was pretty much lights out his first year. Then he had Tommy John, and missed the entire 2007 season. Then in 2008, he went 6-4, 3.91 and did much worse last year..

He seems to have found himself a bit this year, but that ERA is still much higher than what he started out with before TJS.

I don't think we'll see Strasburg back and pitching well for a good 2, maybe 3 years.

[Regulator]

I get what you're saying.

I'd still be very worried as a Nats fan...

It's not like they're good, and it's not like he was going to turn them around by himself.

Yeah, but if they fixed his arm motion he immediately loses most of the movement on his breaking pitches. It's a Catch-22. Same thing happened with Mark Prior.

Don't recall that actually happening. One of the big deals about Prior was that he supposedly had a "perfect" delivery.

[MoneyMelon]

I think Strasburg is gonna have some troubles even once he gets back.

Look at Liriano..

He was pretty much lights out his first year. Then he had Tommy John, and missed the entire 2007 season. Then in 2008, he went 6-4, 3.91 and did much worse last year..

He seems to have found himself a bit this year, but that ERA is still much higher than what he started out with before TJS.

I don't think we'll see Strasburg back and pitching well for a good 2, maybe 3 years.

Yeah, it'll hold his development back. No doubt.

But by the time they're really competing in that division, I think he'll most likely be back to form.

[MoneyMelon]

Don't recall that actually happening. One of the big deals about Prior was that he supposedly had a "perfect" delivery.

Yeah, Prior's problem was that he was simply overworked way too soon.

Dusty Baker has a reputation for a reason.

Mark Prior has become the poster boy for innings limits on young pitchers. It's why the Red Sox stick to the 30 inning increase rule and the Yankees had the "Joba Rules" for Joe Torre (another manager notorious for blowing out pitcher's arms).

[Chris]

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/08/27/mark ... ough-to-c/

When Prior was a dominating pitcher for both USC and the Chicago Cubs, some pitching analysts described his delivery as textbook, yet others found troubling Prior's "inverted W" delivery, whereby, in the "loading" sequence, the elbow was higher than the shoulder.

[zombiemichaeljackson]

It's Tommy John surgery. He's not dead

Lots of guys come back just fine (sometimes better) after TJS.

It's almost become routine.

It's not like Mark Prior or Kerry Wood. Those guys had shoulder problems.

Shoulder problems will ruin guys. The elbow can be fixed.

If Strasburg hadn't blown out his elbow he would have had shoulder problems too, both Prior and Wood had elbow issues before the shoulder stuff, and it came from the delivery they were using. The only reason Kerry Wood is even still pitching is because he completely re-worked his delivery. If Strasburg doesn't re word his then he's going to be looking at the same thing when he returns, surgery or no surgery.

[Regulator]

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/08/27/mark-prior-on-stephen-strasburg-pitchers-arm-action-tough-to-c/

When Prior was a dominating pitcher for both USC and the Chicago Cubs, some pitching analysts described his delivery as textbook, yet others found troubling Prior's "inverted W" delivery, whereby, in the "loading" sequence, the elbow was higher than the shoulder.

Yet they also mention that no one really made a big deal about Strasburg's motion until he got hurt. I think anybody who is coming out now and saying they were concerned about Prior's motion then is probably taking a little liberty with their recollection.

[zombiemichaeljackson]

Yet they also mention that no one really made a big deal about Strasburg's motion until he got hurt. I think anybody who is coming out now and saying they were concerned about Prior's motion then is probably taking a little liberty with their recollection.

Nope, I remember hearing Don Cooper(White Sox pitching coach) being interviewed on the radio after his first start and saying that he watched the tape and was convinced that he wouldn't make it through the year because either his elbow or shoulder were going to give out because of the motion he was using. He even said that the reason guys use it is because it affords more break on the slider and change up, and that it takes years off of people's careers. He even specifically pointed to Mark Prior as an example.

The reason people weren't making a big deal about it is because they didn't want anyone to spoil their little freak show.

[abc]

Yet they also mention that no one really made a big deal about Strasburg's motion until he got hurt. I think anybody who is coming out now and saying they were concerned about Prior's motion then is probably taking a little liberty with their recollection.

Agreed, but I am concerned about Lincecum's motion.

I've been running free Yahoo Fantasy Sports leagues for years for comic fans from here and Newsarama. If anyone is interested, just pm me your e-mail address and I'll add you to my mailing list. All are welcome.