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Review Group #259: Fantastic Four #587

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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:57 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:Sooooo...no, I can't officially review it. I won't cheat by leaving a score. But man, it's frustrating when a character so clearly not valued by a creator is cast aside.

Welcome to the Outhouse where cheating is not only allowed but encouraged. :-D
User avatar

ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:09 pm

Amoebas wrote:Welcome to the Outhouse where cheating is not only allowed but encouraged. :-D


Ha! OK, then!

SCREW YOU, HICKMAN! Johnny Storm was my favorite one, and it's a big bucketful of fail that he didn't even get to go out with a Nova Blast! Damn it! :smt013 :smt013 :smt013

Story: 0
Art: 8 from the panels I've seen
ElijahSnowFan Irritation: Infinite

Final rating: Epic Freaking Fail
User avatar

Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:28 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Ha! OK, then!

SCREW YOU, HICKMAN! Johnny Storm was my favorite one, and it's a big bucketful of fail that he didn't even get to go out with a Nova Blast! Damn it! :smt013 :smt013 :smt013

Story: 0
Art: 8 from the panels I've seen
ElijahSnowFan Irritation: Infinite

Final rating: Epic Freaking Fail

:lol: Awesome
User avatar

BlueStreak

The Red Stands for Irony

Postby BlueStreak » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:30 pm

New member! Just in time for Anniversary Week!
User avatar

Windom URL

Rain Partier

Postby Windom URL » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:13 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Ha! OK, then!

SCREW YOU, HICKMAN! Johnny Storm was my favorite one, and it's a big bucketful of fail that he didn't even get to go out with a Nova Blast! Damn it! :smt013 :smt013 :smt013

Story: 0
Art: 8 from the panels I've seen
ElijahSnowFan Irritation: Infinite

Final rating: Epic Freaking Fail


The Hicklash is strong in this one. :shock:
User avatar

ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:22 pm

Victorious Squid wrote:
The Hicklash is strong in this one. :shock:


Ha! Actually, for this particular instance, more than anything.

Hickman's been pretty much golden, and really, I haven't had a problem with how he's killed characters before -- people get lit up in Secret Warriors all the time, and I think that run's been borderline brilliant.

But this one...well, it bothers me, mainly because I expect more from Hickman. Death's a cliche. It's not interesting anymore, and whether Johnny Storm is dead for 12 months or 12 years or 50 years, the bottom line is that he was deemed most expendable because really, Hickman thought he didn't fit into modern storytelling and he couldn't use him.

OK. As fans, we go around and around on this all the time. I just wish Hickman would've taken the road less traveled and had Johnny Storm leave the book some other way and just made the changes he wants to make to the franchise without taking the character off the board.

As always, it's not whether you dislike a character or not. It's whether you respect the character, and for once, I just felt like Hickman simply didn't respect the character much at all -- like it's the character's fault that no one ever really developed him, you know?
User avatar

Windom URL

Rain Partier

Postby Windom URL » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:34 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Ha! Actually, for this particular instance, more than anything.

Hickman's been pretty much golden, and really, I haven't had a problem with how he's killed characters before -- people get lit up in Secret Warriors all the time, and I think that run's been borderline brilliant.

But this one...well, it bothers me, mainly because I expect more from Hickman. Death's a cliche. It's not interesting anymore, and whether Johnny Storm is dead for 12 months or 12 years or 50 years, the bottom line is that he was deemed most expendable because really, Hickman thought he didn't fit into modern storytelling and he couldn't use him.

OK. As fans, we go around and around on this all the time. I just wish Hickman would've taken the road less traveled and had Johnny Storm leave the book some other way and just made the changes he wants to make to the franchise without taking the character off the board.

As always, it's not whether you dislike a character or not. It's whether you respect the character, and for once, I just felt like Hickman simply didn't respect the character much at all -- like it's the character's fault that no one ever really developed him, you know?


Most people here know this already, but I like Hickman's earlier work and am not so satisfied with his Marvel output. (That being said, I've only read the first hardcover of his Secret Warriors run--and I liked it but nowhere near the order of Nightly News or Pax Romana.)

I've said too that he never really seemed to know how to write Johnny, especially his use of powers. (Of course, he's still light-years ahead of Joe Ahearne who wrote the gawdawful abortion annual last year.)

I'm not at all sure I'm on board for the relaunch in a few months, although the FF are one of my favorite superhero franchises.
User avatar

SilverPhoenix

Staff Writer

Postby SilverPhoenix » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:48 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Ha! Actually, for this particular instance, more than anything.

Hickman's been pretty much golden, and really, I haven't had a problem with how he's killed characters before -- people get lit up in Secret Warriors all the time, and I think that run's been borderline brilliant.

But this one...well, it bothers me, mainly because I expect more from Hickman. Death's a cliche. It's not interesting anymore, and whether Johnny Storm is dead for 12 months or 12 years or 50 years, the bottom line is that he was deemed most expendable because really, Hickman thought he didn't fit into modern storytelling and he couldn't use him.

OK. As fans, we go around and around on this all the time. I just wish Hickman would've taken the road less traveled and had Johnny Storm leave the book some other way and just made the changes he wants to make to the franchise without taking the character off the board.

As always, it's not whether you dislike a character or not. It's whether you respect the character, and for once, I just felt like Hickman simply didn't respect the character much at all -- like it's the character's fault that no one ever really developed him, you know?


Here's the thing, someone did try to develop Johnny.

But since that develop took place in the 90's, it was automatically deemed shit and thrown away.
User avatar

BlueStreak

The Red Stands for Irony

Postby BlueStreak » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:51 pm

SilverPhoenix wrote:
Here's the thing, someone did try to develop Johnny.

But since that develop took place in the 90's, it was automatically deemed shit and thrown away.


Hard to imagine why.
User avatar

Windom URL

Rain Partier

Postby Windom URL » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:52 pm

SilverPhoenix wrote:
Here's the thing, someone did try to develop Johnny.

But since that develop took place in the 90's, it was automatically deemed shit and thrown away.


I wasn't a comics reader in the '90s, who or what?

All I know about the '90s FF is Sue had a hot navel piercing.
User avatar

BlueStreak

The Red Stands for Irony

Postby BlueStreak » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:54 pm

Anyways, just read it and wished I would have left it in the stupid death bag. This inspires no confidence to read the rest of this run.

I bought an extra copy to go into the permanent collection and another one just in case someone here needed a copy. I'll need reimbursed because I'm giving away two trades this week, but there's a copy out if someone wants to read the "Issue Better Left in a Death Bag".
User avatar

Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:54 pm

BlueStreak wrote:Anyways, just read it and wished I would have left it in the stupid death bag. This inspires no confidence to read the rest of this run.

I bought an extra copy to go into the permanent collection and another one just in case someone here needed a copy. I'll need reimbursed because I'm giving away two trades this week, but there's a copy out if someone wants to read the "Issue Better Left in a Death Bag".
I had no plans to read this but then you guilt-tripped-forced me too for the Review Group.

Welcome to my pain. :-D
User avatar

Eli Katz

OMCTO

Postby Eli Katz » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:16 am

Here's my main problem with FANTASTIC FOUR #587: the death is boring and cliched. Johnny sacrifices himself to save everyone else. I know, I know, this is what heroes are supposed to do. But I have seen this type of heroic death depicted so many times, in so many different ways, that I just cannot muster an emotional response to yet another sacrificial hero story. Remember the cheesy finale in Armageddon, where Bruce Willis kills himself to blow up the asteroid and save the day? Or do you remember when Leonardo Dicaprio sacrifices himself at the end of Titanic to save his true love? Or do you remember when Arnold destroys himself at the end of Terminator 2 to ensure that the deadly robot technology is eliminated from the world? Or do you remember … well, you get the point. Johnny pushing Ben through the portal at the last second and placing himself in harm’s way is so utterly predictable. And disappointing. And cheesy.

Death is overdone in comics. So if death is going to be used to boost publicity and sales, I wish the deaths would at least be unusual. The death of Johnny Storm is just a cheap stunt, with no emotional complexity.

STORY: 1
ART: 8
OVERALL: 4.5
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john lewis hawk

Founder of The Outhouse

Postby john lewis hawk » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:53 am

Eli Katz wrote:Here's my main problem with FANTASTIC FOUR #587: the death is boring and cliched. Johnny sacrifices himself to save everyone else. I know, I know, this is what heroes are supposed to do. But I have seen this type of heroic death depicted so many times, in so many different ways, that I just cannot muster an emotional response to yet another sacrificial hero story. Remember the cheesy finale in Armageddon, where Bruce Willis kills himself to blow up the asteroid and save the day? Or do you remember when Leonardo Dicaprio sacrifices himself at the end of Titanic to save his true love? Or do you remember when Arnold destroys himself at the end of Terminator 2 to ensure that the deadly robot technology is eliminated from the world? Or do you remember … well, you get the point. Johnny pushing Ben through the portal at the last second and placing himself in harm’s way is so utterly predictable. And disappointing. And cheesy.

Death is overdone in comics. So if death is going to be used to boost publicity and sales, I wish the deaths would at least be unusual. The death of Johnny Storm is just a cheap stunt, with no emotional complexity.

STORY: 1
ART: 8
OVERALL: 4.5

Eli believes that the Human Torch should've died from auto-erotic axphyiation.... Hell, I'm loving that idea!
User avatar

Eli Katz

OMCTO

Postby Eli Katz » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:14 am

john lewis hawk wrote:Eli believes that the Human Torch should've died from auto-erotic axphyiation.... Hell, I'm loving that idea!

Yes, and to make it creepier, he uses one of Reed's stretchy limbs to accidentally hang himself.

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