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Review Group #259: Fantastic Four #587

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Tintin Quarantino

Rain Partier

Postby Tintin Quarantino » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Dragavon wrote:Why did whoever pick FF#587 this week? Secret Warriors #24 is also out and that looks like a much better book. :smt017


I did, and just for the reason that they were hyping a major change and I have been a FF fan for a long time. Although I have been enjoying Epting's art on the book--but this issue was not as strong as I hoped it would be art-wise either.


I
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Tintin Quarantino

Rain Partier

Postby Tintin Quarantino » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:51 pm

I was going to add I'm not caught up on Secret Warriors.

******

Postby ****** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:02 pm

Victorious Squid wrote:Even for a death issue, it's very ambiguous when the "final" scene comes, for sure. It's so replete with possibilities to weasel out easily, that's one reason (but only one) I say there was so little emotional resonance. I couldn't even convince myself to believe it was a death issue when it gets right down to it.


Even if we saw Johnny eaten and digested and pooped out by the bugs you would still know he's coming back so what difference does it make if Hickman has left it somewhat ambiguous at the end?

In an industry where dead no longer means dead there's never going to be the same emotional resonance as... hell, when was the last death that anyone actually thought would stick?

While Marvel has certainly played this up for all it's worth and have most likely death bagged their way to the highest selling comic of the year I think Hickman has done it because he has a story to tell with it. The same way Bru told stories about how Cap was important after Cap #25, Hickman can do the same with Johnny. To me he's always been a one dimensional character except for the rare occasion of something like Davis's FF: The End where you're seeing a future version of him. To me this seems like the perfect opportunity to maybe advance and grow the character to being more like that than the himbo he's been for the last decade. If nothing else this eventually leads to Johnny's big giant Negative Zone adventure versus the Annihilation Wave which should be epic, IMO.

And for as many Annihilation fanboys as this site has, the reaction to the Annihilation Wave has been the most befuddling thing. The wave in the original Annihilation series was amazingly badass wiping out entire systems, Johnny facing it alone is crazy awesome.
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Eli Katz

OMCTO

Postby Eli Katz » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:05 pm

Abe wrote:While Marvel has certainly played this up for all it's worth and have most likely death bagged their way to the highest selling comic of the year I think Hickman has done it because he has a story to tell with it. The same way Bru told stories about how Cap was important after Cap #25, Hickman can do the same with Johnny.

Except Bru is a strong, exciting writer; Hickman is not. :P

******

Postby ****** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:06 pm

Dragavon wrote:How long ago did they do this with Captain America? And when did he come back? Yeah, it's only a big deal if you don't read comics.


Are you really trying saying that a death of one of the original FF members isn't a big deal? It doesn't matter whether you liked the issue or not, saying this comic isn't a big deal is just ignorant.
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Dragavon

Podcaster

Postby Dragavon » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:10 pm

Abe wrote:
Are you really trying saying that a death of one of the original FF members isn't a big deal? It doesn't matter whether you liked the issue or not, saying this comic isn't a big deal is just ignorant.


Are you saying that you think Johnny won't return? Because that's being ignorant. If they had killed Wyatt Wingfoot or Alicia or another lesser known character, then I would have said it's a big deal because there's a chance that might be permanent. As it is, right now it's just a countdown to when Johnny gets resurrected or "found alive, hiding in the Negative Zone."

******

Postby ****** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:14 pm

Eli Katz wrote:Except Bru is a strong, exciting writer; Hickman is not. :P


You've read like 2 of his comics and one was a part 2 of 6 and this was a part 5 of 5! I would think The Smartest Man in The Outhouse would have more sense than to completely write someone off after sampling so little of their work.

Nightly News is sci-fi free. You need to give it a chance before you sign up fully for Punchy's clique that I shall not name.

******

Postby ****** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:17 pm

Dragavon wrote:
Are you saying that you think Johnny won't return? Because that's being ignorant. If they had killed Wyatt Wingfoot or Alicia or another lesser known character, then I would have said it's a big deal because there's a chance that might be permanent. As it is, right now it's just a countdown to when Johnny gets resurrected or "found alive, hiding in the Negative Zone."


If permanence is your requirement for something to matter in comics, nothing matters. Ever.
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Starlord

Outhouse Editor

Postby Starlord » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:17 pm

Fantastic Four #587

Ok, let us strip away the hype for a moment. Let us stop shaking our heads and rolling our eyes at what was told to us and what we actually witnessed. Let us remember the first rule in both comics and soap opera's... if there is no body, there is no death.

So with that being done, I suggest that you reread this issue one more time. Take a really good look at the cover which suggests a wonderfuly reminiscent feel of the 70's when split scene covers were all the rage. Read those words again, as if this were the very first time you have encountered a Fantastic Four comic. Notice how pictures and words blend into a tale where one of the best bromances in all of comic history blooms into its full fruition. Or better yet, study those panels where Ben changes back but is helpless to do anything. Those pages made this issue for me. Reed's story is ultra lame and Sue's story is just downright stupid and horribly absurd, but watching Ben and Johnny dance the final dance of death; both knowing that one would be dancing the tango to hell.

There's something good there. I think it was a nice little diamond surrounded by a very large pile of crap. Here's the thing though, if it wasn't for all the smelly manure surrounding it; it might not be so obvious. Of course if your eyes are already burning from the stench, you probably missed it too.

Story: 5
Art: 8
My Score: 6.50
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Tintin Quarantino

Rain Partier

Postby Tintin Quarantino » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:20 pm

Abe wrote:
If permanence is your requirement for something to matter in comics, nothing matters. Ever.


Ah. Hickmanihilism.
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Tintin Quarantino

Rain Partier

Postby Tintin Quarantino » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:22 pm

starlord wrote:Fantastic Four #587

Ok, let us strip away the hype for a moment. Let us stop shaking our heads and rolling our eyes at what was told to us and what we actually witnessed. Let us remember the first rule in both comics and soap opera's... if there is no body, there is no death.

So with that being done, I suggest that you reread this issue one more time. Take a really good look at the cover which suggests a wonderfuly reminiscent feel of the 70's when split scene covers were all the rage. Read those words again, as if this were the very first time you have encountered a Fantastic Four comic. Notice how pictures and words blend into a tale where one of the best bromances in all of comic history blooms into its full fruition. Or better yet, study those panels where Ben changes back but is helpless to do anything. Those pages made this issue for me. Reed's story is ultra lame and Sue's story is just downright stupid and horribly absurd, but watching Ben and Johnny dance the final dance of death; both knowing that one would be dancing the tango to hell.

There's something good there. I think it was a nice little diamond surrounded by a very large pile of crap. Here's the thing though, if it wasn't for all the smelly manure surrounding it; it might not be so obvious. Of course if your eyes are already burning from the stench, you probably missed it too.

Story: 5
Art: 8
My Score: 6.50


They sort of did the Kirk & Spock scene from Star Trek II.

******

Postby ****** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:22 pm

Victorious Squid wrote:
Ah. Hickmanihilism.


Yes, because all these corporately owned characters that have been around for the past 40-80 years have been allowed to change so much. :lol:
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Eli Katz

OMCTO

Postby Eli Katz » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:27 pm

Abe wrote:
You've read like 2 of his comics and one was a part 2 of 6 and this was a part 5 of 5! I would think The Smartest Man in The Outhouse would have more sense than to completely write someone off after sampling so little of their work.

Nightly News is sci-fi free. You need to give it a chance before you sign up fully for Punchy's clique that I shall not name.

I've read more than that. And I thoroughly dislike it.
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Tintin Quarantino

Rain Partier

Postby Tintin Quarantino » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:28 pm

Abe wrote:
Yes, because all these corporately owned characters that have been around for the past 40-80 years have been allowed to change so much. :lol:


I'm not arguing they have, it's all serials and cliffhangers, etc. That would've been cool if he'd been pooped out by bugs though.

And you used the word "himbo"!
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Starlord

Outhouse Editor

Postby Starlord » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:28 pm

Victorious Squid wrote:
They sort of did the Kirk & Spock scene from Star Trek II.


Great! Now everytime I read the FF I'm going to be hearing William Shatner's voice when I read The Thing! Thanks for that! :evil:

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